Perennial dryland beans - anyone willing to grow them out?

To anyone in a semi-arid or arid climate interested:

I got a hold of some P. maculatus and P. ritensis. They are perennial dryland beans. If you will save some of the seed you grow out and share it with me, I will send them to you. I thought I would be able to grow them out, but I had to move, and it's too humid here.

I'd be interested, I live in a high desert so we would also be landracing cold hardiness.

Heck yes, sign me up. Do you want any specific growing conditions for the saved seed? I would plant some unwatered in swales, some in the irrigated garden, and some in an unwatered hugelkultur.

Robert Ray wrote:I'd be interested, I live in a high desert so we would also be landracing cold hardiness.

@Robert Ray - Now that some folks are showing more interest, I dug into the literature some more to find optimal range and growing conditions for the beans. Lots of good info here:

https://archive.org/details/p-maculatus-metcalfei-and-p-ritensis-1980-nabhan-berry-and-weber-economic-botany_202207

Basically, Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico, West Texas, and much of Northern Mexico - especially North West Mexico is the native range. There is evidence that they grew in prairies back in the day. P. ritensis can withstand "low temperatures," but that was just an abstract for a paper, I couldn't find the full text and thus how low "low" is.

What are do you grow in? I'll type in the location to weatherspark.com and see if it's a good match.

My hope is to find people who are in climates that are most likely to successfully produce seed. Then, once we have a bunch of seed, after one or two years of growing, we can start trying them in novel places outside of their native range. Have to build up a seed supply first.

Skyler Weber wrote:Heck yes, sign me up. Do you want any specific growing conditions for the saved seed? I would plant some unwatered in swales, some in the irrigated garden, and some in an unwatered hugelkultur.

@Skyler - please see my response to Robert Ray.

What is your location? I'll find your weatherspark.com data.

I live South of Bend Oregon, 4200 elevation Zone 3/4 high desert arid. I've had success with tepary,  white and cocopah brown. I

Robert Ray wrote:I live South of Bend Oregon, 4200 elevation Zone 3/4 high desert arid. I've had success with tepary,  white and cocopah brown. I

When do you plant your tepary?

I'm east of Albuquerque NM, and would be very interested in some. Zone 6b, high (6400ft) desert, sandy lightly alkaline soil and no established overstory.

L. Jenkins wrote:I'm east of Albuquerque NM, and would be very interested in some. Zone 6b, high (6400ft) desert, sandy lightly alkaline soil and no established overstory.

That is very near the native range, and I think a great prospect! I'm thinking it's best to plant them at the start of, or just before, the rainy season. I'm assuming that means next year, next spring. Is that right?

I'll send you a PM in the next week or so. I'm still collecting names of folks that are interested.

Thank you!

Robert Ray wrote:I live South of Bend Oregon, 4200 elevation Zone 3/4 high desert arid. I've had success with tepary,  white and cocopah brown. I

I've been considering the native range of the beans more carefully, and due to their native range not getting as cold as your area, I hate to say that I will need to wait to send seeds to you until we have a successful first batch. Once we get some successful seeds grown (which could take a few years), I will send you some to experiment with. Gosh, I hate to do this, I wish I had more seeds, but I got precious few. Hopefully the grow out will be successful and I can share some with you to experiment and see if they overwinter well in your area! Thank you so much for your willingness, Robert!

Skyler Weber wrote:Heck yes, sign me up. Do you want any specific growing conditions for the saved seed? I would plant some unwatered in swales, some in the irrigated garden, and some in an unwatered hugelkultur.

Skyler, I'm sorry I didn't know beforehand, but I've been digging into their native range more, and I think it's better to risk this first seeds on areas closer to the native range that don't get quite as cold as your zone (I finally noticed your zone in your profile description). If we get successful seeds after this first grow out, I'll send you some to experiment with. I hate to limit who I send the seeds to, wish I had more. Thank you for your willingness!

No problem, once you get a good harvest I'd like to try some of your strain in my climate. Skyler, since we live in roughly the same kind of climatic area (I'm from Wyo. orignally) shoot me a pm if you want to try tepary seeds that have been successful here. I also have camas lilly that should do well in your area too if interested.

R. Beaty wrote:

L. Jenkins wrote:I'm east of Albuquerque NM, and would be very interested in some. Zone 6b, high (6400ft) desert, sandy lightly alkaline soil and no established overstory.

That is very near the native range, and I think a great prospect! I'm thinking it's best to plant them at the start of, or just before, the rainy season. I'm assuming that means next year, next spring. Is that right?

I'll send you a PM in the next week or so. I'm still collecting names of folks that are interested.

Thank you!

Thank you! It's so rare to find tepary beans, I've only seen them mentioned once outside of this site, and that was by an older local who didn't have any seeds. I'm very excited! It seems most people out here plant their bush beans with the monsoon, which starts in late June to mid July. I think it is a bit late to start them this year since we've had our rains for about a month already, so early next summer would be an ideal time.

I have not ordered from here but an excellent selection: https://www.nativeseeds.org/collections/tepary-beans
They also have an interesting search engine called adapts: https://adapts.nativeseeds.org/

Thank you! It's so rare to find tepary beans, I've only seen them mentioned once outside of this site, and that was by an older local who didn't have any seeds. I'm very excited! It seems most people out here plant their bush beans with the monsoon, which starts in late June to mid July. I think it is a bit late to start them this year since we've had our rains for about a month already, so early next summer would be an ideal time.

You're welcome! Okay, in light of the timing of the rain, I think you're right, next year is best time to plant them.

To clarify, my beans are not "true" tepary (as a USDA researcher told me, though I don't know what that actually means, lol). P. ritensis and P. maculatus/metcalfei have been colloquially called "brushwood tepary" or "mountain tepary," but supposedly aren't "true" tepary. Key difference is that, unlike tepary, these are perennial. Other than that...they are pretty similar, from what I can tell. I guess not true tepary from a genetic standpoint?

...

If you are interested in finding true tepary to try growing, I did a search last year looking for sources. One of them Robert Ray already mentioned, www.nativeseeds.org. Here are the rest that I've found (I've not ordered from any of these, just found them):

https://store.ramonafarms.com/Tepary-Beans-Our-Heirloom-BAVI/products/5/

https://store.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/products/lofthouse-landrace-tepary-beans
(Lofthouse!)

https://exchange.seedsavers.org/page/catalog/search/variety?keyword=tepary

https://www.tradewindsfruit.com/tepary-bean-seeds

https://sandiegoseedcompany.com/product/vegetables/beans/organic-tepary-bush-bean-seeds/

https://www.gardenhoard.com/brown-tepary-bean-wepegi-bawi-seeds.html

https://heritageharvestseed.com/products/blue-grey-speckled-tepary-bean-seeds

https://www.marysheirloomseeds.com/collections/heirloom-beans/products/blue-speckled-tepary-beans

https://www.ranchogordo.com/products/brown-tepary?variant=2570815939

https://abeancollectorswindow.com/network.html
(You have to sift through each "Network" page and use your web browser's search function to find "tepary" on the page. I reached out to him but never heard back. Maybe I should've been more persistent in reaching out. Supposedly, he'll send you a bunch of seeds as long as you send him 60 back from your successful grow out!)

https://greatlakesstapleseeds.com/search?q=tepary

https://www.etsy.com/listing/868142564/brown-tepary-beans-s-oam-bavi-heirloom

...

If anyone wants to get very nerdy about tepary, email Dr. Beaver and Dr. Porch - https://www.canr.msu.edu/legumelab/about_us/directory_legume_innovation_lab/index - they know mucho about tepary!

Robert Ray wrote:No problem, once you get a good harvest I'd like to try some of your strain in my climate. Skyler, since we live in roughly the same kind of climatic area (I'm from Wyo. orignally) shoot me a pm if you want to try tepary seeds that have been successful here. I also have camas lilly that should do well in your area too if interested.

I am at the New Mexico, Colorado border at Trinidad. My zone is 6b. The bean will work here. I am far warmer than Wyoming.

Skyler Weber wrote:I am at the New Mexico, Colorado border at Trinidad. My zone is 6b. The bean will work here. I am far warmer than Wyoming.

Hi Skyler, unfortunately all of the beans were spoken for before I saw this post! There is one person that has not confirmed with me, though, and I'm going to give them a couple of weeks. If I don't hear back by then, I'll reach out to you.

Thanks!

I too am just east of Albuquerque at 6500 feet zone 6. Please keep me in mind for this summer for planting.
Michael Wachocki
mtwachocki@yahoo.com

R. Beaty wrote:

Skyler Weber wrote:I am at the New Mexico, Colorado border at Trinidad. My zone is 6b. The bean will work here. I am far warmer than Wyoming.

Hi Skyler, unfortunately all of the beans were spoken for before I saw this post! There is one person that has not confirmed with me, though, and I'm going to give them a couple of weeks. If I don't hear back by then, I'll reach out to you.

Thanks!

Looks like your beans are all spoken for.. but I’m just outside of Death Valley, on the northern edge of the Mojave Desert. Definitely interested in your beans should some become available. Thanks!

Thank you, Michael and Ted!

Alas! All of the beans are spoken for and will be planted out this year. If over the next few years enough beans are saved from grow out to be shared with more people, I will certainly reach out to you!

Add me to the list of people who are interested if / when you have lots from the current growers and want more people growing them.    I live in Provo, Utah.  We're a desert climate with wet cool winters and hot, very dry summers.

I moved from Pennsylvania to Mississippi Zone 8B recently.

Living towards a hill, other nearby areas get swampy.

Elephant Ears, Canna Lilies and some things are perennials here.


First half of the year / growing season is typically rainy and wet. The second half is drier.


While the seed and things seem to be spoken for, I'm planning on trying out some tepary beans and things next year.


Including wild subspecies and types from Native seed search.


https://www.nativeseeds.org/products/pw104?pr_prod_strat=use_description&pr_rec_id=414194ebc&pr_rec_pid=237667969&pr_ref_pid=93774612&pr_seq=uniform

https://www.nativeseeds.org/products/pw108?pr_prod_strat=use_description&pr_rec_id=414194ebc&pr_rec_pid=360349361&pr_ref_pid=93774612&pr_seq=uniform

https://www.nativeseeds.org/products/pw103?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=414194ebc&pr_rec_pid=950176132&pr_ref_pid=93774612&pr_seq=uniform

https://www.nativeseeds.org/collections/tepary-beans/products/pw096


The first link has a tepary bean with very slender leaves.


I'm aware that the mentioned perennial beans aren't true tepary beans. I believe some, P. ritensis, P. maculatus and whatnot are in the same subsection or group as P. polystachios, the Thicket bean.


I believe these all tend to grow in woodlands or in some forms of shade.



I'm hoping to get more P. polystachios accessions other than Prarie Moon Nursery's type at some point.


There's also been talk of P. lunatus and P. polystachios (Lima and Thicket Bean), hybrids being possible to create.

Tepary beans seem to be in another group.


Anyways, if I were to attempt a P. polystachios x P. lunatus, I'd very much like to have these other species around to see if any hybrids can show up.



I'm assuming that there's already a waiting list, and I haven't done seed trades despite being here awhile.


If all goes well I may have some interesting Phaseolus stuff to trade such as a few dwarf runner varieties from Germany.


But yeah. Just figured I'd pop over here and express some interest.

Garrett Schantz wrote:
But yeah. Just figured I'd pop over here and express some interest.

Hi Garrett!

Alas, they are all spoken for. However, I've added your name to the list. I won't have anymore beans/seeds again from my original source, probably ever, but we are hoping that enough seed will be grown out over the next few years to get some to share. We shall see!

Robert

Just wanted to say thank you for the beans and I have planted them all out.

I have what's looking like some probable Succotash Common bean x Alma's PA Dutch Lima bean.


So, I remembered that this thread existed and headed on over here.


I'm hoping to try and see if any of my dwarf runners will cross back to other runners or accept common bean pollen to any degree.


Which, I'd also hope to mix the Common x Lima after I mix in some mostly perennial / annual types into it plus other common beans.


Then, hopefully P. polystachios and the types here would be able to donate pollen to more promiscuous species with some lima genetics.


One plant has two sets of cotyledons, but they're doing better than my growout years ago when I lived in PA. I'm not even 100% sure that they're lima interspecific, but it falls into a "probably" category.



It's hard to find anyone even growing the species mentioned here, and I'm looking forward to hearing about the tastes of these beans or different flavors or uses that they may have.




Joseph and other people's idea of using promiscuous tomatoes to easily cross some varieties or more easily accept pollen from wild species, really made me think about beans in the same manner.

Phaseolus coccineus is mostly self incompatible. And it also readily accepts pollen from other runners, but it rejects pollen from other species.

Common beans don't outcross at a high rate but accept pollen from other species to some degree and in some cases it only works in that direction.



I remember reading about a bean that can be ground up and used like coffee or a chocolate substitute. Can't remember which it was.

But, wild species like these may have more than just fun disease resistances and things.



So, even if there's a wait, I still think that these could be fun when used in breeding work. One of them may have been used in Lima breeding.



Bit off topic, but I just figured that I'd express why I think they're neat.



Best of luck to anyone growing them! Native seed search sold one of these species for non-native populations for about a year and for some reason I didn't buy any seed.

Skyler Weber wrote:Just wanted to say thank you for the beans and I have planted them all out.

Skyler, forgive me and my potentially poor record-keeping, but am I the one that sent you beans? I have you listed in my spreadsheet as pending successful grow-out and that I sent the seeds to others.

Emily Sorensen wrote:Add me to the list of people who are interested if / when you have lots from the current growers and want more people growing them.    I live in Provo, Utah.  We're a desert climate with wet cool winters and hot, very dry summers.

I've added you to the list!

Garrett Schantz wrote:
Bit off topic, but I just figured that I'd express why I think they're neat.

Best of luck to anyone growing them! Native seed search sold one of these species for non-native populations for about a year and for some reason I didn't buy any seed.

Interesting stuff! I really hope the beans grow out well and we have seeds to share!

I'm very curious to hear how this project has been going. Are any more seeds available?

@Sam Gallagher

I need to check in with those who received seeds! Their rainy season should be now or soon! Sadly, the beans have not been grown out yet because of terribly limited rains in the Southwest of the US. I'll check soon with those who received seeds, though, and see what it's looking like now

Please add me to the list, if you think my climate will work! I'm in southwest Colorado, at 7200 feet elevation, with plenty of south-facing slopes if a slightly warmer microclimate would help. I should warn you that I'm still a beginner gardener so I might have to bug you for advice on how exactly to grow them, but I'm very interested in anything in this genus.

I got tepary beans from here this year, and as long as the wildlife doesn't eat them I should have at least a few seeds of my own in the fall.

@Josh Warfield, I've added you to the list! Sadly, this is a slooow process, and it'll probably be years before I can get any beans to you. There's a handful of people that have my original beans that are growing them out this year in the Southwest of the US. If they are successful, then maybe there's a chance I can eventually get you some beans to try!

@Josh Warfield, I've added you to the list! Sadly, this is a slooow process, and it'll probably be years before I can get any beans to you. There's a handful of people that have my original beans that are growing them out this year in the Southwest of the US. If they are successful, then maybe there's a chance I can eventually get you some beans to try!

Sign me up! I'm in far southwest Oklahoma, much more like Texas.  We haven't been getting nearly the rain in recent years that the charts suggest we do.  Right now I believe the forecast is 10 days or so (at least) off 100+ degree temps.  I sometimes get sidetracked and don't check the forum for months at a time (ADHD LOL) so my best contact is judithlbowman at google mail dot com.  I understand that it may be far down the road before you get any to share.