Squash growing experience

Good tip, May! I don’t have squash bugs, but do have squash vine borer.

Today as luck would have it I actually saw the moth laying eggs when I was out in the garden at lunch. I swatted her, and then checked my plants. I’ve never managed to get the eggs before they hatch, because I did not really know *when* to look for them. Today I scraped dozens of eggs off my maxima (Navaho Green) and Pepo (striped maycock). Borer ignored or didn’t find my mixta squash (Illinois cushaw) or moschata (Myaamia tan).

I noted this in the garden calendar I am keeping this year, so next year I can be reminded to look for the eggs at end of June when currants are ripe.

Mk Neal wrote:Good tip, May! I don’t have squash bugs, but do have squash vine borer.

Today as luck would have it I actually saw the moth laying eggs when I was out in the garden at lunch. I swatted her, and then checked my plants. I’ve never managed to get the eggs before they hatch, because I did not really know *when* to look for them. Today I scraped dozens of eggs off my maxima (Navaho Green) and Pepo (striped maycock). Borer ignored or didn’t find my mixta squash (Illinois cushaw) or moschata (Myaamia tan).

I noted this in the garden calendar I am keeping this year, so next year I can be reminded to look for the eggs at end of June when currants are ripe.

Squash Vine borers arrive around the same time here and so far I haven't seen any eggs. Maybe I get lucky this year.

You have so many interesting squashes. I've never grown any of them.

May Lotito wrote:

Squash Vine borers arrive around the same time here and so far I haven't seen any eggs. Maybe I get lucky this year.

You have so many interesting squashes. I've never grown any of them.

Thanks! The Navaho green is the only one I’ve grown before. The other seeds I got from Blake Lenoir. They are heirloom varieties from the lower Great Lakes First Nations.

Now that my squash plants are tall and lush, it's not practical to check every leaf for bug eggs. Instead I come out at night with a portable work light and shine underneath the leaves. That gives me the x-ray vision to find any hidden eggs quickly.

More squash vine borer woes! The adults are still at it, and my plants are too big and rambling to check thoroughly. So, inevitably some vines got bored. ☹️.  Some larger critter (a robin, maybe?) came to eat the borer-maggots and ripped up and severed half my squash vines😣.  I reburied  the vines, and some have rerooted  but others are a loss.

Sorry to hear that. I saw my plants dying right in front of my eyes before. It just happened so quickly.

This year I also lost at least a dozen cucumbers to cucumber beetles. Luckily I planted a lot more and still have some left.

My harvest is starting to come in for winter squashes.

May Lotito wrote:Now that my squash plants are tall and lush, it's not practical to check every leaf for bug eggs. Instead I come out at night with a portable work light and shine underneath the leaves.

Thanks May! I just fount out that it works on heavily overcast days too.

Glad it helps.
We had a really bizarre weather this year and the squash bugs keep coming from somewhere. I am killing over 100 adults per week. Now the plants have long vines and they like to hide underneath. I spray water at night and get them out quite effectively. And the shop light is a game changer.
Not very permie but my plants are just beginning to produce. I do have some garden invertebrate friends to help with pest control though.

Mystery squashes I have this year.
Cushaw and delicata?

did you plant mixta/cushaw? that first one looks more moschata/longneck butternut than cushaw to me.

I have regular butternut and it is shorter than this.
Pearl gave me some seeds say unknown squash, maybe that's where it came from. That squash is 16 inches long right now.
The second one is probably f2 of hybrid stripetti. Bushy, thorny and seems to be self incompatible.

agreed, normal butternut is shorter, but ‘tahitian’ butternut and others like it are longer. i’ve never grown the specific longer varieties myself, but squash that look like that (or like that, only green and spotted like a ‘long of naples’) regularly show up in my moschata landrace. got some pushing past 2 feet long right now.

If I recall correctly, the "unknown" ones were either Blue Jarrahdale/Queensland Blue or Butternut, the label came off, but that's what I had going at that time. Someone else who got some definitely grew the Blue off of them.

Not sure what kind you got there. If it turns blue, I'll say it came from me :D

I have been growing squashes for a few years now from seeds I saved. Almost all heirlooms lost the characteristic traits after just one generation: Cinderella pumpkin no longer flat, peanut pumpkin getting smoother and the Halloween pumpkin getting smaller and smaller. Due to limited space I usually just grow two for each kind. Looks like I need to plant a lot more to avoid degeneration.

On the other hand, hybrid seeds from store bought squashes are fun to grow with all the surprises in the offsprings. I have something new this year: huge 5-lbs acorn and bright orange spaghetti squashes.

I cross-pollinated an apple gourd and a bottle gourd. I couldn't find information about the resulting hybrid. Will the F1 be any shape in between and the F2s segregate into apple and bottle shapes again?  Any idea?

I wanted to summarize some observations on the squash bugs. I planted different squashes in different soil conditions and the degrees of infestation and damages were different.

Maxima(kabocha) in poor soil: most easily attacked and I spent a lot of time picking bugs off these plants till the squashes reached maturity. Most plants directly killed after just bearing one fruit.

Maxima(red kuri,  in rich soil: modestly affected. Adult bugs sucked on the vines and created wounds for microbes infection and killed the plants indirectly.

Butternut in poor soil(right next to maxima): not affected until all maximas were gone. Older leaves were attacked by the nymphs first but the whole plants were not killed.

Butternut in rich soil: some infestation early in the season. After picking the adults I saw very few nymphs and the plants are still healthy till the end of the season.

Long island cheese: no damage
Acorn squash/summer squash: some infestation, yield unaffected


I stopped handling with squash bugs since mid August and let the predators in the garden area to take care of the remaining adults and nymphs. They did a great job, for the first time, I have squashes growing all the way till frost and there are only a few bugs spotted occasionally.

I am going to keep on improving the soil and try more maxima squashes next year.

Round up the majority of my harvest to take a group picture.
I also bought a 3oz pack of winter squash collection from True Leaf Market. I am really excited for some surprise squashes next year.

I crossed apple gourd with birdhouse gourd and got a...

BARBAPAPA!

I got little harvest from squash seeds I intentionally planted compared to the volunteers. And they are not even grown on a compost pile. It was the site I made compost though and I removed most of the compost for the garden, only leaving a thin layer to cover the ground. Even so the fertility left behind was still able to feed the massive plants.

Here's the majority ofvthis year's harvest. Most squashes are volunteer butternuts from last year's seeds. The sizes and shapes are quite diverse: some look like parents, some have butt cracks, some super small and two vines just kept aborting.
Maxima is a total failure this year, mostly lost to Cucumber beetles at seedling stage the rest have weaker root system compared to moschata and just barely survived. I am going to start a buttercup landrace to select for plants that will grow well in my climate.

I plan on creating a landrace of kabocha/buttercup type of squashes next year. I have ordered several seed packets from different sources to have a greater diversity to start with. I also need to change the way I grow squash to maximize hybridization.

In the past, due to small garden space, I would only grow one or two maxima squashes and they were massive with many secondary vines. There were multiple fruits per plant: 2-7 depending on the variety till the first frost. Saved seeds were no good due to self pollination and the progenies degenerated very quickly.

For the landrace I am going to plant them a lot more densely so each vine will produce just one fruit. They will be small but early and mostly hybrids then I can continue to select from F1 in the year after. Here is the schematic diagram of the difference of planting multiple crowded squashes vs a big single plant.

May,

I like your idea, and am excited to follow along.  Are you using a bush buttercup?  I've not yet grown either variety, but will someday.

This year I had 10 cucurbit volunteers from my "survival of the fittest" seed project last winter in a 16 foot by 16 foot square.  These were comprised of Maxima, Moschata, Pepo, & even a Cucumis Melo.  While I did have fruit set on nearly all of them, I did lose a couple to overcrowding.  The problem I ran into was all the vines went downhill to one corner, then ran along the fence until they shaded each other out.  I had so many vines crossing over one another, that even when I tried to trace them to see which plant they came from, I was wrong more than I was right, lol.  Some vines reached 25 feet!

Are you going to continue your Moschata/volunteer landrace?  Are you saving seeds from any unusual shaped ones?  Just curious what you prefer in your butternut/moschata pumpkins shape-wise?

Hi Cy, for butternuts, I am going to grow some from the better and bigger fruits again next year. As for the unusual shape, do you mean the ones with long necks? I have no idea where the seeds came from! I like the flavor of butternuts and they store well and are very efficient space wise.

Though I am not landracing butternuts technically, but if I do, I will grow butternut in a way different to  Kabocha. Kabocha and other buttercup shaped squashes tend to grow a single main vine with few adventurous roots. I will grow them closely and coil the vines up to a 6 ft tall horizontal trellis. They will probably set fruits before hitting 5ft height. Currently I have the following varieties: kabocha totyo blue, buttercup, Dakota desert squash, red kuri and sweet meat.

For butternuts, they are a lot more vigorous and send out lots of side vines. As you observe, that will lead to crossing over and shading out the vines. It also increases the chance of self pollination. I would bud prune to ensure a single main vine for each plant because of the above reasons.

I am going to create a diagram shortly and explain more in detail the pattern of flowering and fruiting in butternut squash (and other squashes that branches easily) in the next post. Now I'd like to show the squashes in storage ( in a spare bathroom not in use ) and the yard after the vines are gone.

Here is the hand drawing till I have the time for some PowerPoint. I try to keep the diagram as close to the real scenario as possible.

When a butternut squash has enough nutrients, it will try to get more vegetative growth before putting energy in regenerative growth. The first female flower on the main vine is usually aborted and the bud by the flower quickly develops into a side vine. Flowers on the side vines will set fruits later. Moreover, when a young squash is developing, the subsequent female flowers on the same vine will be aborted until the fruits reach maturity.

When every bud ( from every node not just the one by a female flower), the frist female flower will set fruit. Next female flower appears 6 to 7 leaves later is aborted even with successful pollination. The one after that will also be aborted since it takes certain amount of time for a butternut to ripe. I observed a interval of 3 sets of female flowers or about 20 leaves between two butternuts with a total of 3 fruits on a single vine before frost.

With extensive bud pruning for a single main vine, multiple plants can be grown closely with the all the vines trained in parallel to maximize sunlight harvesting. It also increases the cross pollination between different plants.

May! Love your diagram and explanation! I have never paid enough attention to squash to have noticed this.

I have a nice kabocha that was given to me by a Japanese lady with whom I often trade seeds. She grew it 1 year from commercial seeds from Japan, and saved seeds , and I have grown it 2 years. It seems to be dividing into two types, one the original deep green, and one larger with a whitish blush over the green.

I hope it does not cross with zucchini.

Kabocha has very dry and sweet flesh and is the only kind of squash I can make tempura with. The kabocha grown from my saved seed looked the same but plant were weaker with small fruit.  I need to bring back the vigor by hybridization.

I am wondering if your two kabochas have different flavor. But I doube a maxima can cross with zucchini which is a pepo.

May Lotito wrote:Kabocha has very dry and sweet flesh and is the only kind of squash I can make tempura with. The kabocha grown from my saved seed looked the same but plant were weaker with small fruit.  I need to bring back the vigor by hybridization.

I am wondering if your two kabochas have different flavor. But I doube a maxima can cross with zucchini which is a pepo.

As you can tell, I am not knowledgeable about squash.

They are very firm, even hard fleshed, deep yellow flesh. Both varieties taste similar to me. My wife's Japanese friends loved them and requested more, so we gave away a lot. I plan to grow a lot more next year (and a lot fewer zucchini). Plants were vigorous. They did get squash bugs, but I was able to keep them under control manually. Will try to get a picture.

May Lotito wrote:I crossed apple gourd with birdhouse gourd and got a...

BARBAPAPA!

I planted a couple hybrid seeds to see how the F2s segregate. One has large mottled gourds resembling the F1, but more of a teardrop shape. The other one has small round white gourds which is quite a pleasant surprise for me. I always want some buffalo gourds to make rattles with but can't find any seeds for sale. This one certainly will work. I rush to plant a few more hybrid seeds to see what other shapes they brings.

I am experimenting a different way to grow Butternut squash this year. I prune them to be single vines and string them up vertically to a 5.5-6 ft tall horizontal trellis with fabric strips. First female flower is removed so fruiting starts from the second female flower at about 25-leaf stage. The fruit will hang off the horizontal trellis rather than on the string for better support. Though the plants are not able to put down adventitous roots this way, the squash bug pressure is much lower since the bugs like to hide under the stems sprawling on the ground.

I do this to all my squashes fruiting off the main vine, including those in the GAMCOD garden. For cucurbits fruiting off the lateral shoots I only prune off buds off next to the female flowers. Weather has been great with ample rainfall. The vines are growing like crazy and start to set fruits.

May Lotito wrote:Though the plants are not able to put down adventitous roots this way, the squash bug pressure is much lower since the bugs like to hide under the stems sprawling on the ground.

Interesting. Getting lots of squash bugs this year, too many years growing in the same garden with no break.

Growing vertical would also make looking for squash bug eggs and adults a lot easier.

I left a few squashes near the edge to crawl on the ground as the trap plants. Maxima isn't a good choice since they easily get killed by the bugs. I heard market farmers use Hubbard at the end of each row for this purpose.

Once the squash bugs land on one plant, they keep coming back to the same one. All I need to do is to come out right before dark and check alone the vines of this specific plant. Usually I kill 1-2 pairing mating ever day. It only takes less than a minute but prevents the adult bugs from laying eggs. Finding and removing eggs will be more time consuming. Occasionally I miss a few and the nymphs still like to stick to the same plant so they are easy to eliminate too.

Healthy squashes nearby are not attractive to squash bugs but that can change when they are stressed. I make sure they are watered and fertilized properly so the bugs are confined to a few trap plants.

I have definitely noticed the squash bugs prefer older, weak-looking leaves. I have been doing a lot of reading recently, and it seems they like to lay on leaves that have already been infested before. Pheromones? Or, they just like weak leaves? They also like plants that have been infested with stem borers.

For a 'trap' plant by chance a volunteer zucchini is growing off the edge of the garden. The bugs seem to really be attracted to it, more even than to the kabocha.  

There are multiple mechanisms that make a plant to be resistant or susceptible to sap-feedibg pests. It could be structural, nutritional, chemical, etc. Yellow summer squash is probably the No1 favorite of squash bugs. In my case of this trap butternut squash, I think open wounds on the stem makes feeding easy for the bugs and make them to come to the same spot.
I picked off three bugs yesterday, three again today. And it has been going on for over a month. I don't know where they are from.

I have a lot of squash plants this year with very different growing conditions and that provides me great opportunities to experiment pruning. The main reasons to do this rather than letting them be are 1)to better understand the source-sink relationship that can be applied to other fruit growing;) and 2)getting better quality product.

The first fruit is usually also the best one. Commercial growers achieve producing single fruit from each plant by controlling planting density. As in this case of watermelons. I think it's analogous to growing single large ear in corn too.

I have over 12 combinations of leaf size, fruit bud number,pruning position, branching type etc to evaluate.

In my gamcod garden, due to restricted space, single stem moschata squashes with medium sized leaves (12" wide or less) with terminal fruit bud work very well. The only fruit at the end of the vine gives good sized squash with a long period to accumulate DM. (1st picture)

2nd pic shows one vine with small leaves and in part shade with just minimal amount of energy that goes to produceing seeds with no neck.

3rd Pic shows when there are more than one terminal fruit buds, only one will develop ( fruit at -1 position, fruit at 0 position aborts) due to higher hormone levels.

For plants with robust growth (leaf diameter over 12"), terminal fruit bud results in young fruit busting because of too much influx of photosynthates. Additional sinks of young leaves, fruit bud and auxiliary shoots help with channeling and balancing. The biggest single squash come from positioning fruit bud at -8 position for this type of squash. 4th picture showing the squash over 20 inches long, mostly due to increase in the neck portion. I like long solic neck since it's easier to process.

I also have one vine trained as single stem on trellis, though fruit buds appear every 4 leaf nodes on average, fruit setting happens every eight leaves. (Pic 5 ) So eight large leaves are able to support one fruit, and if the leaves are smaller or receive less sun light, the interval will increase.

Plants with multiple branches are mostly still in vegetative stages. My self imposed deadline for winter squashes fruit setting is Aug 20th this year. I don't want mediocre winter squashes that taste bland and don't store well.

This year's squash harvest is coming in and I still haven't gone through last year's. The butternuts store very well without any loss in the taste. More hollowing is seen in the Waltham type and less in the long-necked variety.  

A nice problem to have!

I will have far fewer squash than I want this year. I have Kabocha and two kinds of zucchini. The vine borers killed a bunch. I am seeing a few fruits hiding here and there. One good thing, the squash bugs are in remission. Still finding a few, but I think something is killing them. Sometimes I'll find just one or two nymphs on a leaf, instead of dozens.

This year I left a handful of poorly rooted daikons in my growing beds for the (tasty!) seed pods and because the bees seemed to be really enjoying the flowers. And, maybe, because I was feeling lazy. I planted my summer squash and cukes like I usually do, and they have been growing on and around my old overgrown daikons.

My squash and cukes are ridiculously happy, with full healthy leaves, lots of flowers and fruit, and no visible bug damage. Is this a thing, daikons and curcurbits?

It's nice you guys are getting cucumbers, melons and kabocha. I have less success with them than with moschata and gourds. The main pests are spotted and striped cucumber beetles and they hide in the soil near the base and start eating up the seedlings when they emerge. They keep on attacking leaves and young flowers and fruits all season long. I lost all direct planted cucumbers and hami melons. Out of the 25 maxima plants for landracing I have a dozen left and so far yielding 4 fruits.

I have observations suggesting a nutrient deficiency and attraction to pests in the squashes. I have a lot less workload dealing with squash bugs in moschata but I like to stop them from finding the plants in the first place. Growing healthy plants that are pest free through balanced nutrition will be my main goal of investigation and experiment next year.