christian agrarian community

I had not heard of the Catholic land movement. Very cool.

I met a man that was raising highland cattle but in Missouri I am afraid they would be Missourable.
I am looking at southpoll cattle as they are bred for hot areas and to excel on 100% grass.
See here => http://www.southpoll.com/

They are a new breed and hard to come by but the lines they are combining are old and proven...

Hmm, my previous reply disappeared..

I have a friend raising highland cattle but I don't think they would like the heat in MO.
I am looking at southpoll cattle bred for heat and to be grass finished.
More info. here => http://www.southpoll.com/

If anyone has grazing ready land and wants to mob graze I am ready to invest in a few bred heifers of that sort..



I had not heard of the Catholic land movement.. Very cool.
We need hundreds of farms/communities in every state...

Also,

Just so anyone on this thread will know.
We will be in the Kansas City area for David Hawkins's strawbale thing that is in the Kansas City thread that I can't find.. (this site is a little weird in how it works..)
Someone give me that link if you can find it.?!

I'd like to meet as many folks from around there as possible...

South Polls are some big cattle wow! Or at least they seem pretty stocky for sure. Interesting breed, I had never heard of them before.

The pics on the home page is showing bulls. They are big but the regular cows are around 1200 lbs and VERY tame see here =>

I have tried to post three times in a row now.

Here is the link to the upcoming event.
https://permies.com/forums/posts/list/200/24368#441151

Here is the FB link also => https://www.facebook.com/events/531483457034161/

scott romack wrote:I have tried to post three times in a row now.

Here is the link to the upcoming event.
https://permies.com/forums/posts/list/200/24368#441151

Here is the FB link also => https://www.facebook.com/events/531483457034161/

You're posts are all showing, but you might not be seeing them because they're on the second page. Look for a link to page two, either at the top of the thread, or the bottom. I hope that helps!

Hi Scott,

Just tought I'd give you a destination:

http://twelvetribes.org/community/fieldstone-orchard is our farm; and, http://twelvetribes.org/community/community-lawrence is a community.

Likewise,I don't believe in communism; however, in Acts 2, we believe a key to Our lives is found here:

"42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved."

I am thankful for your reply.

I understand your need: "This would NOT be a commune nor a dictatorship but a voluntary association of free property owners (insomuch as we can own property in the world today) all with equal say in all big decisions. That does not mean there will not be leadership but there will be as flat an organization of equals as possible with some temporary areas of leadership/servantship.. "

We want to guide you to a people who practice this type of life. I understand you may want to start up your own community; however, very soon one realizes: I am nothing without all.

Deshé

Deshe Benjamin wrote:Hi Scott,

Just tought I'd give you a destination:

http://twelvetribes.org/community/fieldstone-orchard is our farm; and, http://twelvetribes.org/community/community-lawrence is a community.

Likewise,I don't believe in communism; however, in Acts 2, we believe a key to Our lives is found here:

"42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved."

I am thankful for your reply.

I understand your need: "This would NOT be a commune nor a dictatorship but a voluntary association of free property owners (insomuch as we can own property in the world today) all with equal say in all big decisions. That does not mean there will not be leadership but there will be as flat an organization of equals as possible with some temporary areas of leadership/servantship.. "

We want to guide you to a people who practice this type of life. I understand you may want to start up your own community; however, very soon one realizes: I am nothing without all.

Deshé

Deshé I literally cried, reading my way through that Twelve Tribes' website. Thank you so much for posting the link. <3 Blessings to you.

Hello,
I have been looking to do something very similar to the community you are looking to create. I am able to invest and purchase now as well. I am very sensitive to chemicals and EMFs (especially wireless devices) though and am looking in the Quiet Zone where wireless is not allowed. I also want to do bees and bees along with birds, bats, etc are being killed most seriously from wireless so this area should be better for them than most. I was wanting to build some small natural homes on a permaculture property and maybe some rentals to help others that have to get away from toxic homes and can't be around chemicals and EMFs. I don't have a problem moving somewhere else but I haven't found any other location that doesn't have high power lines/substations, factories with pollutants near by, factory farms that spread their toxic manure everywhere and the smell is so horrendous that you can't even breathe, or wireless everywhere. The areas I'm looking at have high speed wired internet available in both DSL or fiberoptics which is also very hard to find in rural areas. Wired electric can be used as long as it is properly installed, shielded, or filtered. Off grid living is what I prefer and have some really good ideas for alternative energy that requires no electricity or moving parts but needs moving water. If you find an area for your community, that does not have wireless or chemicals, please let me know. I would consider moving. If anyone is interested in moving to the Quiet Zone where wireless in not allowed, please contact me if you would like to invest or purchase something together. Feel free to pass my info to anyone who may be interested. I am not very good at understanding how to use this site, so if I'm not replying, then please just email me directly. I currently am in the mountain side of VA near the Quiet Zone. Beautiful weather, nice non-humid gorgeous summers, shorter growing season so greenhouses are ideal, snow and beautiful winters, and no mosquitoes which is a plus for me. I've caught West Nile in TN and Eastern VA before and I'm not interested in being in mosquito infested areas. If anyone has respiratory issues and if being in non-humid mildly hot temperatures helps, this place is ideal. I would like to do some non-toxic stores and businesses as well. I make all my own products, raise my own animals, etc. My info is Tara 540-474-3146, mustobeyacts2_38@yahoo.com

I am a 53 year old born again christian seeking a community in SC,NC,TN,GA or FL to live and work in. If any one know of any places please let me know.

Hi Angelica,

That is so wonderful that you looked at our website! But, guess what? We exist!!
Come visit us! Statesboro, is [b]so[/b ]close to Savannah, Where we have a community!

I can message you contact information if you like.



Deshé

Deshe Benjamin wrote:Hi Angelica,

That is so wonderful that you looked at our website! But, guess what? We exist!!
Come visit us! Statesboro, is [b]so[/b ]close to Savannah, Where we have a community!

I can message you contact information if you like.



Deshé

That would be really nice of you Deshé! I'd love to come visit some time.

I have started a facebook page to document my progress on my 1 acre plot.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/920348381356497/

I am looking to implement good management methods from the bible and those of God's created nature, and sharing my adventure as I go.

My husband,children and I live out in pikeville Tennessee. Low taxes, no building codes, etc. we love it out here. Biggest struggle is finding like minded folks. Would love it if some other Christian agrarian minded folks moved out this way. Some Christians and some "permaculture " minded ish people and a fair amount of preppers. We've been praying God would send other believers to build a community out here. Not to be confused with commune. Oh and word of caution, twelve tribes. Great group of people, but a cult. They believe they are chosen and only true Christians. We visited them and asked them directly. This was after we camped near some folks from their community at a fest. God Bless.

I wonder if some clarification would help others as well as myself.

Can a "christian agrarian" community be defined ? I think I get "agrarian" but not as sure as what qualifies as "christian" in our present conversation.

What does it take for a community effort to qualify as christian?

Thanks very much for the help.

It's true.

Jay,
I think it would be helpful to not blend the questions you have. What follows is my opinion, certainly.

Let's start first with what might be defined as "Christian agrarian."

A simple definition of Christian agrarianism comes from my friend, Herrick Kimball. He defined it as "Christianity lived within the agrarian paradigm." Not everyone is called to agrarianism and cities aren't necessarily evil. However, agrarian living can provide a context of living that fosters being obedient to what the whole of Scriptures teach us. Ultimately, I find that agrarian living allows me to take a more direct approach to steward God's creation, which is a command given to mankind from the beginning.

To your second question.

What does it take for a community to be Christian? Any group of people who are redeemed by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and their faith placed into that truth. Now, what I suspect you're really asking is do the collective actions of any given group (however they are associated) make it Christian? I'd say certainly not, and that due to my definition of Christianity just stated. We don't do something and then that makes the group a Christian community. People either are or are not Christians. Those who are Christians and then subsequently associate themselves with a group of other Christians then make that a Christian community. It's the identity of the individuals in the group, not what the group does that defines it as a Christian community. Now, it SHOULD do things as a group that sets itself apart from the rest of the world in our process of sanctification. One of those things to "do" might be to live cooperatively in an agrarian setting. But agrarian living is not exclusively Christian, nor does it cause someone to be a different kind of Christian than our urban-dwelling brethren. A Christian community need not be rural or suburban or urban or agrarian. As I see it, a Christian community is simply a subset of the global body of redeemed believers that have a logical tie, such as physical proximity, that can collaborate and edify each other as they worship and seek to be obedient to God.

THANKS Dan. That was a great effort to answer the question.

So, would a Christian community then be exclusive to those able to call themselves Christian? Agnostics not allowed?

"Good Neighbor" is really not sufficient in this context. Sometimes it seems almost counter-productive to wave such a banner. But I imagine a successful gathering of those who are Christ-like and feel worthy of this elevated condition would be a most satisfying neighborhood indeed.

I wonder if a Buddhist or a Native American spirit-filled agrarian community would be as satisfying. Remember Scott and Helen Nearing? They would have made outstanding neighbors, yet not really qualifying on the Christian measure. I sure would feel bad about excluding someone like them.

Anyway, I wish you very great success in the development of your community.

Tara Sanders wrote:Hello,
I have been looking to do something very similar to the community you are looking to create.  I am able to invest and purchase now as well.  I am very sensitive to chemicals and EMFs (especially wireless devices)...

Hello,

Sorry for slow response.
Wifi is bad for everyone and I would love to get away from it as well. I would be all for plug in only internet..

God Bless,
Scott

Hello all,

Sorry the conversation shifted to facebook but I think this is a better place for it.

There is interest in a few different locations that I will briefly list;

Near Kansas City Mo.
One brother is actively searching for land to LEASE so housing is to be semi-permanent which is kind of bad inmho.

Near Austin
I have a very visionary friend that wants to build an urban community north of austin - again, for me too close to the city.

Somewhere in TX
Several properties are popping up along with some interested folks with skills and perhaps a little money..
I am leaning this way and may even invest to get the community going while still working here in town... (what a great guy.. lol)

My timeline has moved once again and am looking at one more year here in the salt mines.

I hope all are well and God Bless,,

I'd love to talk about ideas of community living. I'm really wanting to do the same sort of thing hhere in my area north of Detroit. Anyone can shoot me a text at any time at (586) 930-4616. - Vaughn

I love this concept!  I will at least pray for you, because it's not possible for me.  Not all of my family is willing/able to follow through.  Please keep us posted.

Love this thread.  It seems as though there are more of us (Christian permies looking for community) out there than I once thought   I have land in upstate new York that has amazing potential (yes, I know, Upstate New York??)  It is 60 acres that was once used as a heritage farm meant to show farm life in the late nineteenth century.  It still has many of the original buildings, although they are in need of attention.  There is a cider press building, small blacksmith shop, sugar shack etc...  Anyway,  I wish more of you like-minded, Christian agrarian folks lived nearby.

So, what updates to this thread? As a Christian and a new wannabe farmer/permie in the KC area, I am interested in how this goes. Would like to meet others around to learn from, but that might be hard with my Sun/Mon weekend. Looking for an alternative to the corporate rat race though... working on paying off debts this year, and trying to get something started in my backyard (about 1/6 acre back there.)

Jon Marc Harshbarger wrote:Love this thread.  It seems as though there are more of us (Christian permies looking for community) out there than I once thought   I have land in upstate new York that has amazing potential (yes, I know, Upstate New York??)  It is 60 acres that was once used as a heritage farm meant to show farm life in the late nineteenth century.  It still has many of the original buildings, although they are in need of attention.  There is a cider press building, small blacksmith shop, sugar shack etc...  Anyway,  I wish more of you like-minded, Christian agrarian folks lived nearby.

That sounds amazing but yeah Upstate New York sounds like an interesting place for a community. Do you own the land or paying on it?

Leif ing wrote:So, what updates to this thread? As a Christian and a new wannabe farmer/permie in the KC area, I am interested in how this goes. Would like to meet others around to learn from, but that might be hard with my Sun/Mon weekend. Looking for an alternative to the corporate rat race though... working on paying off debts this year, and trying to get something started in my backyard (about 1/6 acre back there.)

The dream is still alive although taking too long. I have had a couple of folks contact me with some interest and the area with most people Is actually in your area there near KC. I am flipping a house here in TX and will be ready to do something soon (not soon enough).

I'm of the opinion that we can create community and not all be living on the same property. We understand this in the virtual world. But, with the vehicles and phones we have now, our "village" is a bit bigger geographically. We don't have to live in the same IC or even the same town to show up and help one another, trade or barter, train and teach, or just simply support. There are many ways we can connect in true community if we are within reasonable driving distance to each other. Those of us in the Kansas City area can pool resources, labor, talent and still maintain our individual properties without imposition of another - something that is often referred to as interdependent independence.

With all that said, I can't wait for the Romak's to finally get to Missouri.

scott romack wrote:I am still here and proceeding with the plan. I've been a little distracted with some musical projects but otherwise trying to save money for land purchase.

I missed seeing this thread before, but wanted to add a few thoughts. In addition to the other areas mentioned, consider SE Oklahoma because the soil is good, the cost of living is low, and there is as much freedom here as most anywhere else. There are investors here who will sell land with as little as a few hundred dollars down and carry the paper.

When I bought 117 acres in Texas in 1990, I found that 20 acres, 40 acres and 100 acres all cost about the same amount of money because the smaller the parcel, the more they wanted per acre. I found it easier to buy over 100 acres than a smaller amount.

Also note that very rural areas of SE Oklahoma often have high-speed internet access. Some of us can make a living online from anywhere we can get decent access. A mix of people who earn money to cover land payments, utilities if any, purchases, etc. and others who spend their time planting or working on the property would provide the most flexibility.

Regarding how much land each individual or family needs, the main need for land is for animal grazing and that could be collective or owned by those who choose to have animals. One of my challenges is that I have horses and finding a partner who wants to live where I would live and have horses is a challenge.

It wouldn't hurt to have some people who chose to only need 5 acres or less and others who wanted grazing land around on in between the smaller parcels. That would allow everyone to have more like-minded neighbors and more insulation from those who might not be permaculture-friendly.

Wouldn't it be great to land on a place with others who want to build underground houses, build hugelkultur and raised beds, plant trees and/or a permaculture food forest, raise animals, build (or find a place with ponds), and share knowledge and skills?

What Paul has going on in Montana is great, but not all of us would fit in there.

Well, hard to believe it's been 5 months since I posted on this thread, but the dream is very much alive and growing. (Just popped into FB tonight and posted on there too, although I am not on there often.)

So, changes on my part... the wife has agreed it's better for our kids to get some rural land and cut way down our debts. We want to find 20-40 acres over near Union, MO, Washington County, Cape Girardeau... somewhere over that way, within maybe 30 miles of an open assembly/Gospel hall (brethren) and big box stores such as Walmart/Menard's/Lowe's/etc. Got some fixin' to do on our house in KC first so we can sell for decent money and easily, and would like tosave up maybe $20k to put down.

Community is really important to us, so it would be great if we could find other like minded folks out that way. We are looking for rolling hills, water and fence ideally, and considering alternative construction for a long term home, shipping containers, earthbag, not sure yet. I haven't even looked at big properties because we want to keep our debts as low as possible, but if we found some others that wanted to find a way to buy a big chunk and parcel it out or something like that, or find some way to go in together for more land... I know we'd like some e;bow room, but also would prefer neighbors we knew and trusted nearby too.

What are others currently thinking on these matters lately? Scott, any progress or bumps in the road? I'm guessing ~2 years is our escape time frame, so learning as much as I can now. Definitely wanting others interested in food forests, animals, water catchment, off grid living, etc. TSP members a bonus...LOL

I am expanding the Christian agrarian group out to MEWE.    

https://mewe.com/group/5a9c2073e61a407ece22f227

I have 3 members so far and hope to make the group grow trying to migrate off facebook.    FYI.

Haven't been on FB much, MeWe less over the last year+, but wondering what's going on in your neck of the woods, Scott? Any further news on locations, other interested brethren? Anything going on IC-wise on MeWe or FB I should go check on/look for?

Mart Hale wrote:I am expanding the Christian agrarian group out to MEWE.    

https://mewe.com/group/5a9c2073e61a407ece22f227

I have 3 members so far and hope to make the group grow trying to migrate off facebook.    FYI.

Group has really grown, now up to  170 members and growing.

Well, my wife has decided that after some more work on debts and fixing the house she is finally willing to really discuss getting some land in rural MO. Neither of us want to change states, although after the PEP1 event I’d consider Montana as my second choice to be near Wheaton Labs. I am hoping maybe next year to get the family on a road trip to visit Wheaton Labs and meet Paul and Jocelyn, the Ants, and everyone else involved, stay a few nights and see what is really possible, help out a bit, etc.

I’m investigating buying raw land, especially here in MO, and think it would be great to have other permies  involved, whether to come and have a place to build and live in exchange for some help around the place, be able to grow their own garden, raise animals, etc. I haven’t sold the wife on my dreams of a wofati/Oehler style house yet, but maybe if she can get to WL and see a few, she’ll catch the dream. She’s talking right now about a smal house, outdoor summer kitchen, outhouse (willow feeder), and some sort of storm shelter (shipping container for temporary/storm use, otherwise storage?), and wants chickens and goats.

Haven’t settled on one area, so I plan to start using my weekends home to take the family around MO and see areas within maybe 30 minutes of Springfield to start, between Jeff City and St. Louis later. Looking mainly for rolling hills at this point, and ideally many trees for resources, building material, etc. Any ideas on what else might be desirable, other than water? Other areas within MO that have lax/no building codes/permits needed?

Would prefer 10-20 acres, maybe more if feasible. My 20 year old son has also expressed interest at times in this project.

Leif

J K Johnson wrote:Good to see you on this thread Dan.

You might contact Nicholas Burtner.

Second the idea of reaching out to Nicholas.  

While I don't know him personally, we've spoken on the phone a couple times.

He seems very sincere and passionate about his work and his path.

The agrarian model has lots to offer, regardless of faith or philosophical leaning. I think that it would be good to have many such communities, whatever religious or ideological patterns they use. I think the key here would be to try to have everyone follow the Golden Rule. I believe "Love one another..." is NT, no? Or "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto me..."

My goal here would be to be able to have bridges of understanding established between diverse agrarian communities. They might not all agree, and they might not, for instance, vote the same way, but a basic understanding would let communities trade and share resources better, for the benefit of all, and while there would be many faiths under the umbrella of this collection of agrarian communities, they could reach understandings as to agrarian best-practices.

The more aligned communities, the better, regardless of the specifics of faith. And while I wouldn't imagine I'd see a Catholic agrarian community happily working alongside a Satanist agrarian community, I could easily see any of the other faiths mentioned, and even Wiccan or Humanist communities, able to collaborate within a framework, a patchwork quilt of stewardship to cover the earth.

-CK

"Oh look, a sparkly purple moderator hat!"

*Puts said hat on*

I thought I should stop by with a little message about permies publication standards. Generally, discussion of religion does not happen outside of the Cider Press. Outside of the Cider Press, we focus on solutions and cool stuff. In the Cider Press, we discuss the stuff we probably wouldn't bring up at a work potluck or a family reunion: religion, politics, etc.

So far, this thread has been really great about providing resources and connections for people looking for a Christian community. We've been able to keep this thread in the general forum because there's no real discussion of what exactly constitutes Christian faith or what those beliefs mean, etc. Those are great topics for the Cider Press!

So, for any discussion about what exact denominations or christian/non-christian beliefs would be involved in a specific Christian community, please take that to one of the mewe/facebook groups or PMs or even the cider press.

For discussion on where such a community is/might-be, or what would be grown or animals would be raised and how many members, etc etc ect, keep on chatting here!

Thank you!

*Takes off the sparkly, but very itchy, moderator hat*

Thanks for the tip, Nicole. I’ll have to go check out the cider press... I can get along with just about anyone, so tend not to consider offending folks, certainly not on purpose! Always good to hear about resources I wasn’t aware of though... :)

Leif

Hello all!  

So very happy to have found this community thread!  

I have for many years been at odds with the endless "progress" and the myriad problems that necessitates.  All the roads and cars and pointless driving around every day, not to mention the cell phone/computer/convenience addiction...  we have become so weak and disconnected...  I feel it necessary we revert back to a reap-and-sow lifestyle of God, family and community.  

Looks like I am several years late to the conversation, here is a little about me:

Santa Barbara local - late 30s, fit, healthy, sober and strong; Ready to escape the liberal madness, set some roots and start a family.  Newish to Christianity and growing daily.  I spend my time collecting seeds, staying frugal, and seeking communities like those described in this thread.  I am very mechanically inclined with high attention to detail - I am confident I can fix just about anything given the need and I love working with my hands.

Looking to get connected; any suggestions is greatly appreciated!


Adam
amobock@me.com