I had one fish die but I am sure it was all ready compromised. I believe I need to get both the rain barrel and float value to top the water off more often, I believe the water levels dropped through evaporation and some spill over.
Thanks for the replie Sean. Thanks for the info on surface filtering. It is probably a combination of things including the crazy weather we have had and other changes that I made. I have done it for 3 years and grown each year and this is the first year that I have introduced fingerlings. Its winter with some growth but not the hearty biological growth that warmer weather creates. The ponds are in the greenhouse which although unheated stays 20f above the outside temp. So it never freezes but the green things are limited to Kale some broccoli and clover and some other overwintering plants. I tested the water and my PH is a solid 7 and my amonia is .25 parts per. and my nitrites are high at 4 part per and my nitrate are on mid side. So ok but defiantly high nitrites. So it sounds like it is just the cycle in a spike. I have to get a good filter to take out Clorine so I can do more fresh water exchange. I will have to get a larger axuilary tank to hold water at temp in another part of the greenhouse.
Foaming in water. I am having a foaming issue. Almost like baking soda. Many variables but. In short. two 100 gallon tanks, 8 goldfish about 6in to 8in each about a pound I think. the other tank has 12 trout that are between 4in and 7in an about .5 pound for the biggest one been there since Dec 20. Just recently started to bubble excessively. I use city water and it seems to be getting worse if add to much at a time. Does anyone know a safe de -colonizer for water that is safe for all beings including a cat which drinks from the pond and trout that I hope to eat. It could be some kind of reaction with the ammonia from fish waste but the whole system has been running for 3 years and this the first time I have run into this amount or even what seems to be a type of bubble which is almost epervecent. The video is after it has been going but in the morning it is getting to where it covers the half the top of the water. Need a good solution.
I have played with heating water in a bath on top of my RMH. As has been stated the problem is in the tendency of water to reduce the effects of the heat riser to preform as it is sopposed to. I was able to receculate water through a bath with a small pump and an insulated container. The limitations where that I could only raise the temp slitly with each pass through the heat coil. It takes a lot of BTU's to heat just the bath, them with each pass of the water through the coil the temp in the bath would drop significantly. Geoff Lawton has a video on you tube showing a dedicated system to heat water this seems the safe way to do what you are asking about.
I have posted this before but... this is the barrel covered in clay slip, or the dirt from under the shed which is mostly clay.the top has a scrap piece marble. Still could be more polished but you get the idea.
Have you thought of the possibility of a kind of permatourist. It might be a lot of work up front but maybe a couple of lodges for people willing to pay to come work and be guided through what it's like to be on a a permaculture reality. The clientel may be a little needy but it seems like you are all ready dealing with that. Take advantage of the fact that people want this kind of thing and have them pay for it. One week room and board 1200.00 give them a place to stay with a couple of meals them put them to work in a sort of tourist learning hands on kind of thing. Give them a sort of certificate to put on their wall and they can go back to what ever money making job they were doing feeling like they were a less distructive force in nature while they went on there vacation. It would probably break as many tools as the ones that say they are going to help but actually bring in some money. You may have to play a role which is outside your comfort zone but it might be worth it. The ant village sounds great but it seems many of the dedicated just can't scrape together the cash and effort it might take to give up the job and build somewhere else. I have seen ecotourist resorts with some of the eliments, people paying to experience a "green" vacation so why not a permatourist.
I read most of this and did not see this idea. I have been trying to work out a simple heat diferencial pump where the sun is focused on a medium which draws the water from a colder point below. It seems you could maximize the wicking effect by focusing sun light with a simple parabolic shape which would increase the flow? Not sure if it would effect other aspects of the aquponics as I know heat can increases algie.
I had a hard time rapping my head around this stuff. Some of it so engrained in things we say it just seems natural, still working on it.
Julia
I hated this class and argued tooth and nail with the teacher but after facing so many less then well supported discussions I revued them again and found them freeing and comforting.
I like the copper cover, I wonder if you could cut small shapes out of the copper. A pattern or maybe spray it with an acid such sufuric acid to get that blue green patina. It will probably gain it's own patina over time but if it were sprayed you could make it happen on purpose. I worked at a foundry once apon a time and did the patinas for bronze statues so I know we used sulfuric acid and a mix of copper that when applied to heated bronze Would give you a Brite viverent color. It's also nice just as it is.
Do you know if there is a calculation to determine the amount of heat retained in a burn? Something like temp at the burn vs temp at the end of the chimney?
Every once and a while I read something that seems to work against the idea of shared information and verbose discussions. We each make discovery's and try to put out what we have found and how we did that. It also seems that sometimes people cast doubt on certain ideas but instead of giving good sound reason why it might work, they use what are termed in Western Philosophy as false arguments. These are simple things that people do all the time in a discussion which do not support what they say but redirect the discussion in a manner which does not further the discussion. An example would be someone attacking a person "your not an engineer how could you know that" "it has all ways been done that way" These are kinds of false arguments. It is not that the person stating these things is wrong, just that the logic that was used to come to the conclusion is not based on the information given. This kind of rebuttal does not further the discussion. It only clouds the ideas and usually degrades into a personal attack. There are many "false arguments" but after 10 I get a little overwhelmed. So the top 10 ways to redirect a discussion are as fallows. Note: I took this from another website and it is only a part of what was written. It used examples which may be misunderstood and thought of as an attack against a population or a group. I will try to re write the info without any references to any persons way of life, If my examples are less than stellar I can only hope that this is a starting point to a search for what a "false argument" might be. Please do your own search to discover what they really are. I am not an expert and make these mistake all the time. I just try to ask myself if what I am saying can be supported with data. If I am reacting from a personal bias or is there some evidence to support this idea I am discussing.
1. Don't attack the person’s character, but the argument itself. (“Ad hominem”)
Example: Dave listens to Punk rock, therefore his arguments against other kinds of music are worthless. After all, would you trust someone who listens that junk to have any taste in music?
2. Don't misrepresent or exaggerate a person’s argument in order to make them easier to attack. (“Straw Man Fallacy”)
Example: After Jimmy said that we should put more money into health and education, Steve responded by saying that he was surprised that Jimmy hates our country so much that he wants to leave it defenseless by cutting military spending.
3. Don't not small numbers to represent the whole. (“Hasty Generalization”)
Example: Climate Change Deniers take a small sample set of data to demonstrate that the Earth is cooling, not warming. They do this by zooming in on 10 years of data, ignoring the trend that is present in the entire data set which spans a century.
4. Don't argue the position by assuming one of its premises is true. (“Begging the Question”)
Example:
Sheldon: “Science must exist.”
Wilbert: “How do you know?”
Sheldon: “Because my text book say so.”
Wilbert: “Why should I believe that text book?”
Sheldon: “Because that text book was written by scientist.”
Wilbert: “Hu?”
Here, Sheldon is making the assumption that Scientist wrote the book(so to speak), therefore his premise – That science exits is true. (this has nothing to do with science or weather I think it is true it is the way it is stated)
5. Don't claim that because something occurred before, it must be the cause. (“Post Hoc/False Cause”).
This can also be read as “correlation does not imply causation”.
Example: There were 3 murders in Dallas this week and on each day, it was raining. Therefore, murders occur on rainy days.
6. Don't reduce the argument down to only two possibilities when there is a clear middle ground. (“False Dichotomy”)
Example: You’re either with me, or against me. Being neutral is not an option.
7. Don't argue that because of our ignorance, the claim must be true or false. (“Ad Ignorantiam”).
Example: 95% of unidentified flying objects have been explained. 5% have not. Therefore, the 5% that are unexplained prove that aliens exist.
8. Though shall not lay the burnen of proof onto him that is questioning the claim. (“Burden of Proof Reversal”).
Example: Marcy claims she sees the ghosts of dead people, then challenges you to prove her wrong. The burden of proof is on Marcy, not you, since Marcy made the extraordinary claim.
9. Don't assume that “this” follows “that”, when “it” has no logical connection. (“Non Sequitur”).
Similar, but the difference between the post hoc and non sequitur fallacies is that, whereas the post hoc fallacy is due to lack of a causal connection, in the non sequitur fallacy, the error is due to lack of a logical connection.
Example: If you do not buy this Vitamin X supplements for your infant, you are neglecting your her.
10. Don't claim that because a premise is popular, therefore, it must be true. (“Bandwagon Fallacy”).
Example: Just because a celebrity like Dr. Oz endorses a product, it doesn’t make it any more legitimate.
I changed the original "Thou shall not) to (Don't) to avoid any references to anything.
This is just the short list there are many ways to derail a discussion, I just think if we can gently insert reason over emotion we would find ourselves coming to more conclusions that would serve us better.
So if you are on youtube at all you may have seen these treads talking about candle clay pot heaters. Well being the piro/scientist/engineer type that I am I could not resist. What bothered me the most was a misrepresentation of the science or people using sci ency talk to prove or disprove. Stating things like the conservation of energy but not talking about how a mass might change the rate of dispersing the heat and the possibility that some kind of prylast or re-burn of the the candle smoke could occur like in an RMH. In short after a little experiment without much data, I found no stack effect(with the designs available) and little more than a slight delay in the release of heat or the basic conservation of energy. But the worst and most egregious fault of these videos is the danger that a. being in a closed space with any combustible heat source. And the likelihood that a fire from the wax will begin and flash burn into a torch and burn out of control. If it could get hot enough it will catch on fire. Or to put it more simple to get any heat out of lets say tea candles you need 20 or so and well thast what I did. and it burnt up in a short period. It was in the greenhouse which made it a safe experiment but even with the fail safes such as a burn proof setting the smoke would have cause damage to someone in that space. I stepped away for about 10min and that's when it happened. Just when I thought it was safe. It was showing internal temps of 250F and exterior temps of 120F. I see no real variations of this kind of burning heater. Without and exhaust there is fumes and if it is exhausted without extracting the heat the useless light a bunch of candles and hover over it if you want but well. Not for me.
I love this pic, It looks so pro and homey, comfortable. I would still like to see someone come up with a cover for the drum that would not effect the burn. Just a cosmetic thing. Everything else is so organic a warm looking and then the barrel. But still a great example of why this is worth doing.
So I made a video of how I make a pellet feed grate which I call the Mchannel grate. I looks like a an M from the top and well you get it. I holds about an hr or so maybe two if you let it burn down but I can also add pieces of wood pallets, pine cones, chunks of wood and more. The pellets provide a dense fuel which is helpful in such a small feed. My RMH is a small unit with a single seat and small barrel 30gallon. Hope you enjoy.
"In Permaculture thinking, anytime we hear ourselves calling something a "WASTE" product, we need to go back to the drawing board and enlarge our design to transform it into a RESOURCE"
I believe this is the first part of the solution but more explicitly to think in systems which are stacked within and on top of each other both figuratively and literally where applicable. It is not just not Waste but is a lost resource, when ever we search for ways to exclude something or ship it away we loose a critical part of the formula. That said I had seen in the past a system which include aguaponics waste management and vegetative food production done in the early 2000's in Austin Texas. This was done in a warehouse with what might be called reengage inventors and idealist, the city closed it down soon after it was up and running but not because it was unsafe, test after test proved the concept worked. There was a series of plants and and fish in successive order one literally above the other. Humans would both urinate and defecate into the ponds or containers which then fed into the ponds then each one would continue to the next till at the end the water was tested to be as pure as drinking water. If you think about it this happens all the time in nature and is only truly pulled out of balance by humans attempting to separate out the parts which seem unsavory. This is a broad statement and not always true. I know that I myself have a hard time rapping my head around this but continue to try to think in these terms. What is the next place something will complete the cycle. Can a preexisting system in nature be simulated to create a more compatible system. It is not a solution that we are looking for but a system which reconnects us to that fundamental system which we tried to separate ourselves from. The advances in technology are fantastic and I for one do not wish to give up any of my great communication tools, or many of the great advances, for this right here could not happen, but more to find a way to bring those things into the fold of systems within systems which compliment each other, close the loop so there is no thing called wasted it does not exist it is a false word. I hope more engineers and other thinkers in your position would adopt this idea so we could all grow together and not be leaving a big pile of @#*! to our future generations but also to export ideas and systems which allow other peoples to grow into these systems and make them work in there environment.
On line search tools like Zillo work well. There is a property map and the purchase record right there. Some times the info requires a little more hunting but it is a great easy start.
Hmmmm, not sure but I bet your getting a air current through those holes? Are they covered? Or did you leave them open to vent the air. I am just guessing.?
Hi Michael I miss read your dimensions, I am a visual person, so the pis are great. Again I have only built the one unit with many prototypes before i built the final build with several modifications including the use of wood pellets as the main fuel mixed with other stuff, it can burn any thing but because of the small size 4in a dense fuel gets me up to temp fast with no fly ash. That said I am only making guesses. Is the RMH sitting on a concrete foundation?, Is there insulation under the burn tunnel? Both of these may being effecting the temp of the gasses entering the manafold? That's all I got I think others also gave good feed back which seem along the same thread. Good luck keep us posted.
Ok I thought I replied to this but I can't see it so if this a repete than please excuse me. I am still a novice but have been running my 4in feed for the second year and it works almost perfectly. I believe tour burn tunnel is to long making it so not enough heat is left tore burn within the barrel or what I believe is called the manafold. The hight of the burn chamber probable is acting as a pump to pull air in but not in couris with the barrel so a drawl is made but no burn happens. One way to tell is to test the exuast and see if it is carbon rich. The exist should be mostly CO2 and water vapor. Could also be that the surrounding material is pulling to much heat from the tunnel. Long story short I think your demmensions are off, but without pics and other info not sure.
I looked at a lot of stuff from this guy, ummm I wood look at all his videos. I no longer follow what he does for a few reasons. The major one being safety of which I did not see. To put a copper coil on top of something that hot? He also pots thing as successful only to comeback and update less than positive results. He sounds really good then not so much.
A water mass in a tiny space is a goal of mine as well as heating water. So I looked long and hard at his videos but found flaws that are IMO are a danger to the craft.
I have built a smaller RMH in a space that Is about 8x12 or 96sq. The stove uses a 30 gallon drum and a covered exterior. The bench is about is about the with of the space 8ft by 3ft deep. The exit tube which is in the bench is about 12ft with three 180degree turns and a 14 ft of exit with 3ft of rise above the roof. It burns a mix of pellets and pine cones scrap wood and other. Buy color , bright white orange I gather I burn at about 1200 to 2100. I have melted the grate which holds the pellets it glows white orange. The exhaust is at about 120f or warm to the touch. If you would like more specs let me know. It was a lucky guess and I believe I could do it again but don't understand all the factors that make this work like it does. Ther are multiple heat pumps which increase the effectiveness of this size to burn ratio.
I posted a video of my RMH. It starts out close and I put the phone right on top of the place were the fire is. It shows fire going down and sideways. Hope that helps. Buy the way this is in a small space. It only has a little insulation and still gets quite warm in even extreme cold. 5F with a wind chill below 0 degrees F.
I built a small RMH(8ft by 3ft with a small bench) on a floor of pallets and 3/4in OSB plywood, standard floor structure except the sub floor is old pallets. The pallets have been reinforced and then extra post and beam support under that. But I simple put a concrete board 1/2in. on the OSB Then I put a layer of loose fill dirt around 3in. Then put the exhaust from the stove onto of that dirt and covered that. Under the Rocket part of the heater there is an extra set of paving bricks and then the fire bricks then loose fill dirt then, clay/mud. I used a 30gl drum and lots of other variations. I would build a outdoor version to make sure you have an idea of what to expect. I made several prototypes before I made one inside. Even after I built the one inside I pulled it apart and made critcal changes which made the difference between being warm and being smoked out of the small space. Hope this helps. I would aslo recommend contributing to this great site and buy any of the material which gives all the specs and really gives you the things not to do. In some ways that is the most important thing to not killing you or your family and is well worth it if you are depending on this heater to keep you warm. Remember insulation is going to be your friend. Even a giant RMH can not hold heat into a church which was meant to be in for a short period of time and not as a primary residence. With the right insulation heating becomes something that helps not wasted the energy you worked so hard to make.
I did something like that. While the drum that sits on top of the stack was heating up I put mud/clay on it. Even with it steaming I could get it to stick but it was not easy and talk about water vapor release. At one point it was a tropical rain forest in the small space I was working. It was about 50F outside so not freezing but still cold to be working with wet clay. Starting and keeping a fire in a wet RMH is hard and requires constant attention and may not run if its too cold. Use a torch or heat gun to get it going first. I also did multiple coats on the whole RMH which took about two weeks start to finish I could run it in between to stay warm it just looked well unfinished. I looks nice now minus some small cracks which I will fix next fall or this spring. I probably will redo the whole thing and go for a larger unit. This was my first attempt and I want to pull it apart and make change to get even more from less.
Love your stuff! Here is a simple pellet burn solution. It is a grate which puts the pellets in a vertices feed and keeps ash from getting into the manifold.
To Bob, Big Al and anyone else viewing this tread.
I believe I made it more confusing by including pics of what I had done (the copper tube in water bath) rather than discirbe it. I did not properly note that fact and I think that made it unclear weather I was saying that the pic was dangerous insted of what was being proposed by Bob. Not understanding the dept of Bobs knoledge I tried to share with him what I thought might be dangerous then quickly realized Bob was well into his process. I only made note of what Bob was suggesting doing because it seemed like a question he was possing and because a person had made a series of you tubevideos claiming success heating water with a coil ontop of the barrel only to find out later that same person had all most burnt his friends shop down and had a massive fallure. It did not go into why it failed but i stopped checking that youtube page because well he made it seem as if he figured it out and was so sure of himself and a little cocky and was really doing some unsafe things. Sorry for the confussion. I should be a little less ready to comment on every little thing just really entusiastic I quess. I hope that clears things up.
Just to clarify the water bath is mine Mikael69. I am not that good at posting my grammer and spelling are bad and I am using an Iphone to log on most of the time from the shed an the auto correct is hard to catch. I came in to type up on my desktop and can see alot more of the web site and it is easier to type but most of my pics are on the phone so. Thanks for the link to the other discussion on RMH and water heating where info is cleary stated and with the right math. I think I said steam is 7 times that of water and I believe Big Al correctly states it 1700 times I will just repost that link as I believes it is a great balenced attempt to clearly guide people to not blow themselves up and not blow up the craft with it. I made the water bath after seeing many warnings here about the safe way and things I did not consider, and needed to. people are going do things that are experimentle that is part of the greatness of this sight, people sharing in real time what they have found, I just try not to muck up the info or stear people into unsafe teritory with the proper warnings or at least I try not to but I am sure I will learn more as I go. Some of the designs are so complicated that I would not even begin to calculate all the variables so to comment on them other than to share what I did is well not my place I will let others with better voices do the math and warnings.
As with any additional load you have to reinforce a floor just with any load you must add addition support You can calculated the additional load and add reinforcement to bare the load. You can find the load capabilities of any materials on the web ie a 4x4 post will hold x amount of weight. This is hard to calculate as fasteners and cross beams are a factor, you can find the info but an engineer is going to make it legal fast. You can over build it but no way of knowing if an inspector will approve it. If that is a concern. Hope that helps. I had to put more support under my shed to deal with the near 1500 lbs of cob and brick which are the RMH.
Mikael69
In answering questions.Even pointed ones. Big Al you are a saint and a scholar. You answer questions and provide incredible amounts of life saving info and set the record straight with the grace of a artist who paints a beautiful picture. Thank you for your time and all you have made and are a part of here.
Hi Matt
It does take longer to heat but holds longer, mine fits in a small space 8x12 it is about one quarter of the foot print so I is made with different internal dimensions, and I burn wood pellets in a vertclal burn grate I call a m channel. No part of my stove is to hot to touch exept the marble top at full burn. That just means feeding the channel continuously till it is white hot. My burn chamber is made with fire bricks 4x8 stuck together with clay slip dirt and water (NC clay mud high sand content) I have a 30 gallon drum so it is a smaller vertiginous but then I heat water on top so it puts out a lot of BTUs I think that answered your question with more variables but it is not from any book I just used my own demmensions and got lucky.
Mikael
I believe it is referred to Stack effect, As the chimney or exhaust heats up it draws faster as heat rises, if your chimney rises above the house it creates a better draw and drives the exhaust away from the house. But depending where you live and the design of RMH. Snow could block the exhaust if it gets covered.
I don't know the physics but air buble can get trapped in the pipe it will expand at a different rate and burst the pipe, steam expands 7 times that of water even an open system can explode I won't say anything else but you may want to get the video or reasesch the exploding thing. This site is great because you can find all the I can kill you info easy, you may you have to contribute so money to get specific plans.
Good luck
Mikael
This might be dangerous. Any direct heat to copper is in risk of explosion. Even with good safety values you can trap air.. There are multiple you tube videos with people showing there mistakes. And a video on premise with a safe indirect water heating method. I think the term is squish boom. As in the water goes boom.
Boy my spelling and grammar suck! One mor thing putting ant galvanized or tape is a bad idea and will smoke and off gas I notice your inner burn tower is covered in tape that will have to burn off first.
