Market gardening on non-straight rows???

I'm starting an agroforestry project...A forest farm mainly focused on market garden, various fruit/nut trees, berries, eggs.

I admit to have not enough experience for the huge project I'm starting, i come from a different background. Yet I've been studying and practising for 2 years.

In the photo you can see the 3ha plot and the forest/orchard lines.10mt distance between lines.

Between these lines i mostly intend to run the market garden. Linear, parallel rows, yet not straight, but in a light curved design... It's pretty and it mostly follows isometric lives... but is it efficient and convenient?

As I'm starting managing the garden I keep asking myself... Will this curvy design be more problematic to manage?

Beds will be 1mt by 10mt, 65cm between beds... do you think it's comfortable and efficient?

Thanks for your opinion!

The only issue I can see is you won't be able to tarp or use rowcovers on the most curved beds, since you're only doing 10m beds for most of them I doubt the curve will be a killer you will just have to use things that are over width to allow extra for the curve.

For hoeing and using a 2 wheel tractor so long as the curves are smooth and uniform I can't see an issue with it, you'll get used to it. Just remember to not always hoe from the same end. I will say that 3 hectares is huge really huge you're going to need an army of people to work on that.

If it's just you really do not go over 1/4 hectare of beds in your first year.

Amedeo,

Although I don't reject the idea that the "rows" not be straight, I am not quite sure what the curves are buying you in this instance. You don't have paths shown, but some of the rows appear to be hard to access because they are curved. I would think that would get old after a while.

Your spacing of 10 meters seems close for any "full sized" trees with a garden between and I would be worried about shading in the centers. If you are trying to pack as much in there as you can, I would suggest running the rows due north-south to minimize impacts of shading. I would also suggest after identifying the tree species you plan to plant to re-look at your spacing, or identify temporary rows to be removed in future years.

Are you intending to have more than one bed wide in the 30 meters between the trees? Also do you plan for beds on the entire plot?

Best of luck with your project!

Thanks for criticism, it's important.
Sorry for not showing paths, I'm still considering how to place some of them,

John Young wrote:

Are you intending to have more than one bed wide in the 30 meters between the trees? Also do you plan for beds on the entire plot?

Best of luck with your project!

I don't get the first question, English is not my first language

I intend to start small, having garden beds near the house and then expand beds to next "rings" as i feel more confident

Rows ar already placed mostly north-south (the map is N oriented) I'm in zone 9, so getting enough sun shouldn't be a problem

Trees are to be kept 3-5mt tall, 4mt distance in the row. So, just the closest beds are really shaded, and will be used for shade lovers.

Zones close to the house (let's say zone 1,2 and maybe 3) feature smaller trees and market garden between these rows of trees. Zones 4-5 have bigger/wilder trees and the space in between can be used to pasture chicken (probably with an egg mobile moving between trees)

https://permies.com/t/157739/forest-garden/growies/Creating-forest-farm-thoughts-ideas

This is the thread related to the project, in case someone is curious

Amedeo Nofal wrote:Thanks for criticism, it's important.
Sorry for not showing paths, I'm still considering how to place some of them,

John Young wrote:

Are you intending to have more than one bed wide in the 30 meters between the trees? Also do you plan for beds on the entire plot?

Best of luck with your project!

I don't get the first question, English is not my first language

I intend to start small, having garden beds near the house and then expand beds to next "rings" as i feel more confident

Rows ar already placed mostly north-south (the map is N oriented) I'm in zone 9, so getting enough sun shouldn't be a problem

Trees are to be kept 3-5mt tall, 4mt distance in the row. So, just the closest beds are really shaded, and will be used for shade lovers.

Zones close to the house (let's say zone 1,2 and maybe 3) feature smaller trees and market garden between these rows of trees. Zones 4-5 have bigger/wilder trees and the space in between can be used to pasture chicken (probably with an egg mobile moving between trees)

Amedeo,

My question was about whether you were only going to have multiple beds side by side between the rows, which I believe from reading more is your plan. I also see you are maintaining the trees around the garden to dwarf/semi dwarf sizes which will help with the shading concerns. I understand you are going to put shade loving plants in the shaded rows, I would be careful to ensure that you have enough shaded versus sunny beds to grow the mix of plants you desire.

Here are some random suggestions to consider- instead of having all the rows follow the same curve, consider curving the upper half differently than the lower half, so they could still be curved the same radius, but the layout could be closer to true north-south. Example:
)))))
(((((


Another option is to do two tree rows closer together with no garden between, and then the next row have even more space between the trees. This gives you the same amount of trees on the same space, but more sun in the wider rows. Example:
))  ))  ))
((  ((  ((

Around here I would also not be able to plant any trees under the power lines, unsure what the regulations are on that in your area, but consider using it for hay, straw, or pasture if needed in your plans. You could even flip the row curves again below the power lines if you wanted. Example:
))  ))  ))
Driveway
((  ((  ((
Lines
))  ))  ))

Anyway, sounds like a really interesting project, best of luck.

This is near Rome, some shading between trees is not a bad idea, to protect them from excessive sun light. But it's not mandatory either. At this latitude I think the direction of rows is secondary. Water catchment is what matters most, therefore it makes sense to have level rows, or better in keylines.
From what I guess, maket garden beds will be parallel to tree rows, to further help with water retention. Am I right?

Abraham you are right in everything you said, at least our opinions seems to be similar!

Almost all the plot is in a keyline design... It's very important since we have way too much water in winter(on clay soil) and no water in summer(here the clay soil becomes of help)

I heard many times that at this latitude or warmer an East-West orientation may be suggested in order to reduce the heat... I'm using north-South in order to add trees without loosing much sunlight.

Since a row of trees is every 10mt i can have 7 vegetables rows between trees ones. Each row around 85cm wide(32") and pathways around 40cm (16")

I stand for wider beds, and maybe in the future i will, but it depends on how much space i Need for walking and bringing a wheelbarrow/chart... So even if my will is to make beds wider, i may find in the future that it's better to reduce bed width to 75cm(30") in order to have a 50cm pathway(20")

The curve is not that strong, so i hope i will be able to farm with ease and not find any difference compared to farming on straight rows. But, here as well, i may be wrong and in the future i may decide to straighten some 7beds portions (10mt long each one)... I mean that among the rows of trees, i may create a little rectangular market garden plot of 7 beds of 10mt each

I run 1m beds with 50cm paths If you have the space don't scimp on path width, you will curse it every time you step on a plant, the bed, your rowcover.. and when you can't put a harvest tote down, or get a wheelbarrow in anywhere.

Skandi Rogers wrote:I run 1m beds with 50cm paths If you have the space don't scimp on path width, you will curse it every time you step on a plant, the bed, your rowcover.. and when you can't put a harvest tote down, or get a wheelbarrow in anywhere.

You are right, and this is exactly what i also think. But my other thought is: if I had 90/95/100 cm beds, i would have around 70 cm pathways... It's starting to be too much, i have a lot of space, is true, but this is feeling like wasting it... Don't you think so? Plus, i don't know how comfortable would be a market garden with  beds 1mt wide...

but this is feeling like wasting it... Don't you think so?

Value the gap, man! You call it waste, I call it rainfall cathment area ;)