Tree seedling ID---persimmon

I have several tree seedlings growing in my squash patch this spring. Look like they came from fruits I threw in the compost pile. I am thinking they might be osage orange or American persimmon, or pawpaw. Does any one recognize them?

They look like citrus (like orange or lemon) to me, I guess they`d be unlikely to overwinter with you if so.

looks more like persimmon than pawpaw, but i’m not as familiar with osage orange as seedlings. could you get a closer pic with the stem and leafstems in the shot?

Here are a few more.
I will leave the seedlings there till next spring. Last year I had a handsome mango seedling in my garden and of course it didn't make through the winter.

My money's on not osage orange. No thorns.

does osage orange have thorns it’s first year? i know the (very thorny) honey locust i’ve grown don’t start developing thorns until their second year.

they do look like they could be persimmons. even the spots.

greg mosser wrote:does osage orange have thorns it’s first year?

I never paid that much attention. So maybe osage orange isn't ruled out yet.

Thanks for the replies. I go for persimmon too. Recently I found a wild American persimmon tree by a road loaded with quarter size fruits. I took a leaf and it did look similar, tasted similar too. If I bought the persimmon from grocery store, more likely it was variety like fuyu. Hopefully the seedlings will survive the winter in zone 6.

a variety like fuyu frequently seedless, or nearly so. they are among the varieties (which list also includes some american persimmon selections) that fairly reliably fruit without pollination, and make a seedless fruit when doing so.

I keep two seedlings to grow for pollination.  They are 6 ft tall at 3 year old.
I took a little twig from a wild persimmon tree and compared it side by side with my trees. Can I confirm they are persimmons now?

definitely.

May Lotito wrote:I keep two seedlings to grow for pollination.  They are 6 ft tall at 3 year old.
I took a little twig from a wild persimmon tree and compared it side by side with my trees. Can I confirm they are persimmons now?

Looks like maybe flower buds on those young shoots! Hopefully they aren't both male.

I look very closely and the flower buds are all singles. Does it mean they are female flowers? If both trees are female, will they still bear seedless fruits?

It's still a mystery where those seeds were from. I never bought in American persimmon seeds and there is no tree nearby. Maybe birds ate wild fruits somewhere and dropped the seeds in my garden?

Still, is it possible they are kaki persimmon trees since American persimmons are not sold in the grocery stores? How can I find out sooner while waiting for the mature fruits?

I'm not experienced with identifying persimmon flowers, but from looking at photos on other websites and forums, that seems right. Should be easier to tell as they expand and open, though.

As far as the species id, that pale green color and the leaf texture look more like kaki than virginiana to me. One of my neighbors has a kaki and I have seen many wild virginiana across much of its range, as well as grown a couple rootstocks from Missouri before grafting. So I have some experience with both, but no expert. My understanding is that most (not all) persimmons will set (seedless) fruit without pollination.

These two trees are both males. When I examined the young tip with a magnifying glass I could see triplet of undeveloped flowers. Only one remained due to younger age of the trees I guess. I have four more trees, hopefully some will turn out to be a female.

However I am going to keep these male trees and use the leaves instead. They dye cotton fabric beautifully without any mordent and can be tricked to produce interesting patterns with sunlight exposure.

female scion can be grafted onto male roots, if you decide you want to go in that direction.