Swale layout

Not sure the point of this post but I’m going to do it anyways. Am I the only one who felt dumb after laying out the swale design? Granted this piece of my property basically slopes in 3directions not near the size of a valley but similar shaped. I totally had a different idea in my head than what came out.

It doesnt hinder my plan in any way. Actually I think it will look nicer so one for team team nature.

I actually had trouble with the layout using a smaller aframe. I had to make a larger one then it became easier. How did your swale projects go? Nice and smooth or pain in the rear? So far I’m in the middle but the actual work hasn’t started yet lol.

Joe what size property are you working on, your note is not clear to myself?

Overall the property is about 17acres. This section for the orchard is around 3/4 acre. I am debating extending it for that whole section tho since I’m going to rent equipment anyways. That would be approximately 3 acres.

I have I think 7 log dams and 3 brush dams that are helping in that area currently. The brush dams are in the orchard section.

I didn’t put them to slow water as much as catch sediment / prevent erosion. I’m honestly pretty shocked  at how well that has been working. I’d say they were somewhere around 2years old.

The contours can often be way different to what you expect - which is why a tool to guide you rather than just 'by eye' is important I think. When I made by chinampa/water terraces they turned out  quite different to how I had expected - much more perpendicular to our stream , which in retrospect is logical. I used a bunyip (length of flexible pipe filled with water) to get my levels.

My chinampa thread

What in particular caught you out Joe?

I guess I was expecting the to kinda flow east to west. When extremely heavy rains come there is basically a river that flows through. It doesn’t stay at all past the rain event but it has a “Chanel” it follows. I’m breaking the swales to let that flow through because it would just tear them up anyways. That’s where my brush dams are now is in that Chanel. Since I put them it is I’d say 85-90% grass but before was almost no vegetation at all. We haven’t had a large rain in over two years so those may wash out. I hope enough grass has grown through them to hold in place.

After marking them they seem totally reasonable on the way they ended up. In my head I thought they would be horizontal when I face the front of my property. My orchard is just going to be diagonal and I really think it will look much better and way more natural than I had in mind. So overall I’m very happy with the way it ended up.

you have what you think is your plan.

then you do.

then you reconsider your plan, wondering if you are half as smart as you used think you were.

you learn far more from the doing.  hopefully, you have the wisdom to learn from your experience.

good luck.

I created a couple small swales this past summer.  One was as much about creating a feature that would help to catch snow so we don't have bare ground in that area through the winter.  As we are on a fairly level property, these small swales are on parts of the property that were built up (one down from the driveway, another down from the house - the house is built up, presumably to avoid flooding).

As they aren't terribly long and were grass covered, I first mowed quite low, then I just used my 2' level and marking flags to rough out where I wanted to put them.  I rented a sod cutter to do the digging for me.  This saves a lot of labour, but it can be a bit of a beast to work with (especially since rental units aren't the high end unit I worked with decades ago as a landscape labourer).  I first took off the layer of sod, then flipped it upside down downstream from the swale to begin the berm.  As the silty clay is quite hard packed, I could then run the sod cutter through again to create another loose layer of soil, then use a spade to toss that onto the berm.  Repeat the sod cutting and moving soil to the depth you desire (or until you get sick of it).  

The one swale isn't perfectly level, so I've been working on scraping things down a bit, but I did get shrubs and perennials planted into the berm.  Hopefully everything gets through the winter and then we should start to see things take shape.

What do most people use for depth and width. I read 3/1. So was honestly just going to go exact on that. 1’ deep 3 wide. Any deeper would cause me grief in the field but maybe even shallower might be a good idea.

If I used a sod cutter that I rented I’d end up owning it because all the damage my crappy ground would tear up lol.

Priced a mini ex today. They being cool and just said 8hrs bring it back when done since there’s no way I can do 8hrs in a day due to back surgery recently. So I can keep it several days.

I’m in New York state, so we get a lot of rainfall.

Having put in several thousand linear feet of swales  and spillways just before the edge of a hurricane hit… I’d say be very judicious about timing when you put your swales in! You can’t predict Nature, but you want to do your best to avoid a period where heavy rains could wash out your berms / blow out the spillways before they grass over.

And if I had the use of a sod cutter; I would try to save the sod to the side and place it on top of the berm to try to secure it as soon as possible.

Yea I can understand that point for sure. But if I wait on them then I’m another year out on fruit trees. I could let spring rains pass then build them. And get grass established by watering.

I think I can get some growth going now though before big rains because I won’t wait on nature to grow the seed. I’m 100% going to water the berms. I’ve had so much havoc happen here by waiting on nature. I would be 1000s ahead if I would’ve spent a hundreds on hoses and water. This area is so small it’s not even a consideration not to immediately irrigate.

When I initially cleared out the invasive cedars to make my fields I waited on rain. When it decided to come it was 3” in about 2hours. So it washed away tons of money in topsoil (that I hauled in) and seed. Seed is freakin expensive for good grasses.

Where my runoff can get crazy I have a break laid out in the swales. I think I’ll be ok in that respect unless we get a 10year rainfall

When I do swales by hand I have typically used an A-frame with a 3ft level attached to the cross member. This will give me roughly 6ft span between each point which allows for pretty quick lines. I'll use some twigs to temp in the swale spots to see how the contour flows. This way if it ends up crossing something like a tree or an area not desired, I can easily move up or down slope a bit to accommodate. Since we have pretty heavy clay soil here in Oklahoma, I've found it much easier to borrow or rent a walk behind tiller to run the span of the swale just behind the twig markers. The loose soil can then be easily scooped with a square tip shovel and placed on the downhill berm side and smooths the swale out at the same time.

I like that idea. Although I will have to dig initially with a mini X due to potential rocks. That should make the leveling very easy. I do have an inherited tiller that I’m sure will run with a carb cleaning. It’s been sitting for a looong time.

Well I got the initial digging done. It started raining so we called it off for the day. Just smoothing the bottoms and berms left. Going to get seed tomorrow morning then finish the smoothing and add mulch. Calling it done for a few days after that to recover lol.

I have also found the only place that has decent soil on my property. I was shocked to say the least. Ironically the grass doesn’t grow any better than my garbage gravelly dirt.

Great job Joe! It's so nice to get that sort of work done before the growing season. Hopefully you'll get a good amount of (gentle) rain to soak in there.
Interesting about your soil quality observations. There are so many reasons that an area does not grow well, depending on what is the limiting factor- water, nutrients, air, seed/plants.

Well it was muddier than I wanted to mess with today so we seeded the first two and covered with mulch. Then we picked up all the rock and moved it to an area where water runs into the pond to prevent erosion.

Berms planted with 8 grasses and 2 annual grasses. And a forb mix and pollinator mix. Once trees are set then I’ll be adding comfrey roots along here and there.

Do most people plant trees in berm or behind?? Won’t be long and we will be getting trees. Hopefully next week. My initial thought was behind but after seeing it I can’t decide.

Taking tomorrow off to dry more and take son fishing. Will resume Monday.

Thanks for all current and future advice. I’ve been planning this for a long time now and am really happy about this project.

For some reason I didn’t take a pic from away to show all progress but I got this one this morning. Swales are complete with seed and mulch. I have 15 fruit trees planted so far. I made little guilds around them with onion garlic and cannas. 2 with rhubarb because Ive never had it so why not. I need about 8-10 more trees depending on mature size that I haven’t decided on.

Got a bit of rain last night….

Looking good Joe - you have been busy. Nice to see the water level there.
I guess in Texas rhubarb will struggle with the heat a bit, so may need a bit of protection from the sun until the trees cast enough shade for it. Mine is just starting to show signs of life after the winter - red swellings showing where the leaves will come :)

I couldn’t really find a place that seemed good to place this question but it’s in this area on my farm so why not make it apart of this thread.

So I have 4? Brush dams still here where the potential crazy river runoff is. I broke the swales apart because there’s no way it could stand up if we got super heavy rain. So I’ve been looking into Vetiver for a while because I have lots of sloping ground and I think it would be really nice to have these nice grasses.

Edit: I would like to plant these behind brush dams to eventually smash down the brush. Once the grass got situated good.

2 questions, what has been your experience with this grass. And 2 I can’t seem to find any to buy. If I find some it says it won’t ship to Texas or the price is absurd. Like $50 for a tiny root.

Do you have a good source for Vetiver? Or do you wish you never planted it lol. Or wish you had even more???

Thanks.

Updated pics coming soon when the last few trees get here this week  

All the trees are in and caged. Someone (Nancy?) mentioned my bushes might struggle so I put in the ones I had but won’t buy anymore until they grow a bit. Good suggestion, thank you. All the pollinator and forb mix is in on the hills and ditches. Cleaned up and all covered in mulch.

I ordered some comfrey roots that I’ll space throughout when they arrive.  Other than that I’m complete for the year.

4peach
4plum
4pear
6apple
5hazelnut
2pomegranite
3pawpaw
3olive
4blueberry
Tons of onion and garlics