Mark Shepard took his
PDC from
Bill Mollison back in the day. He also has taught
PDC's. He used Yeoman's keyline principles in the development of his site. If you watch the begining portion of this
video, Mark discusses the numerous influences that he has had throughout his life. He hasn't looked to any influence solely in the master plan development for his site. He has used applicable principles from each, as they made sense. He will state his influences within the first 4 minutes of the video. Garry - I think that if you listen to this video, you will especially feel a kinship for Mark because he does delve into a lot of what you have brought up in this
thread discussion.
I don't have a spiral, I don't have keyhole beds, I don't live in a group of people that hold hands and sing sons, but I don't care of someone else does and I would much rather they did that and fed themselves instead of living on welfare that the rest of us would have to pay far.
There is nothing wrong with questions and answers and good discussion, but it seems to me that if you just want to state everything you find wrong with permaculture, then you probably shouldn't be doing it on a permaculture site. Stepping down from my soapbox now.............
I am right there with you Carol. I don't have an herb spiral but might come up with a hybrid because it will fit my site better and allow me more room to have additional diversity implemented. I am sure that I will have herbs scattered here and there throughout my site as well for supporting beneficial insects, and other species, in addition to below ground benefits that they can bring to the system. If I do my hybrid, that will be my small zone of personal forage while those scattered throughout the system would be there for very different purposes. I can also see the benefit you can gain from them by having diversified growing conditions in a compact space which support the requirements for the various species of plants that often make their way into such a structure. Keyhole beds...hate them just because I think they are ugly. Increasing edge space makes sense, but I can do that in my own system in ways that are more visually appealing to me.
Hugel beds that are 5+ foot tall...not going to happen on my site because I think that they would again, be an eyesore and turn off myself and neighbors. I can achieve similar functions in other ways with
wood chips. I don't get caught up in the names of things. I am more interested in figuring out what works and why. Often times, for myself, the discussions about the "cutes" serve more as a learning
experience for some of the nitty-gritty benefits (the why they are a potential solution) that I might not have yet thought of, not as the actual thing that will be implemented into my own system.
Geoff Lawton is doing a fine job of keeping feet in all camps – that boy must be a centipede! And as Mollison’s anointed he is keeping the flame burning bright.
Geoff's impact on the world is astounding and his enthusiasm and passion is infectious. He doesn't really care if it is happening on a small level or large, he is more interested that it is just happening. He, in fact, has said that, per square foot/hectare, urban production can produce more than in a broad scale system because they can be much more intensively managed. I am not dissing broad scale at all. There needs to be solutions for boath small and large broad scale. They are not always transferrable between the systems, but the lessons learned from each can be. I think instead of taking on a we/they mentality, we need to put our heads together to figure out the how and why a system works and quit getting hung up on what they look like. As with a car, it is the engine that matters, not what the fender or hood look like. If what you can't see doesn't work, it doesn't mean diddly what the heck something looks like or how good it makes you one feel.
I think that it might have been Dave Jacke that I listened to an interview on in which he talked about actually stopping referring to what he did as
permaculture for a number of years because people get so hung up on what things are called instead of what they can do. In my mind, I completely agree. I could care less what "system" or founder something is attributed to as long as it works to heal the enviroment and restore its ability to provide for humanity (to paraphrase Geoff).
I think that the woo-woo of "cutes" is often a tool to get people intersted and involved that would otherwise be overwhelmed or turned off my the under the hood/in depth discussion of why something works. I say step back and observe the audience you are trying to pursuade or help and taylor the message to them, not to your own interests. How much does it make sense to use the same approach when discussing with a soccer mom compared to a large scale farmer. OBSERVE their needs and meet them where THEY need to be met for solutions to their very different situations.
Trying to step down off of my soapbox and not fall off of it now....
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