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composting

Sourcing Organic Material

Posts: 129

Location: Elgin, IL

posted 9 years ago

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Question for David (but everybody feel free to chip in):

I feel like I never have access to a level of organic material that would match the level of my composting enthusiasm. Do you have any favored sources for bringing in some extra materials in bulk? Do you ever grow materials for composting?

"There is nothing, Sir, too little for so little a creature as man. It is by studying little things that we attain the great art of having as little misery and as much happiness as possible." - Samuel Johnson

Lesley Verbrugge

pollinator

Posts: 153

Location: 48°N in Normandie, France. USDA 8-9 Koppen Cfb

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posted 9 years ago

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We're currently setting up keyhole beds and are using every available bit of biomass we can take from other parts of the garden! very useful are Kiwis. they are like triffids once they get going and 'before' permaculture, they were a 'problem' (waste) now they are a major resource (bio mass) We have a six year old clump of Miscanthus sinensis Gracillimus (elephant grass) grown from seed and originally planted as an ornamental grass, it's now four feet diameter at the base and 6' tall, it's yielding an amazing amount of mulch. It needs cutting down yearly in late winter early spring but we're harvesting it now, green and then running the mower over it to chop it up as we don't have a chipper. Also, can recommend Nettles as a good source of bio mass. One final suggestion, We used to be gardeners (pre permie!) and one of our biggest challenges was getting rid of bio mass, especially in residential areas. have you thought about making contact with a gardener and volunteering to take their prunings? goes without saying make sure they are not using chemical treatments.
just my four penny worth, I'm sure others will have loads of better ideas!

So many plants, so little time

David Good

gardener & author

Posts: 640

Location: South Alabama

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posted 9 years ago

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Since a lot of the traditional sources of scavenge-able material (hay, straw, manure) are now contaminated with long-term herbicides and other toxins, I definitely agree that growing high-biomass plants is a wise choice. I've planted trees I can coppice (various nitrogen fixers, Paulownia, mulberry, sweet gum) as well as fast-growing perennials such as Tithonia diversifolia.

That wouldn't work in your area; however, their cousin Jerusalem artichokes make a lot of biomass and compost readily. As a bonus, they're edible. Chapter 10 of my book is titled "Grow Your Own Compost." You've got the right idea.

And I agree on nettles. Very nutritious for you and the soil.

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Hugh Holland

Posts: 53

posted 9 years ago

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David or Others,

When our family visits Cedar Key, we always bring back a van load of seaweed. With only one composter and a side bin (I know, I know) I've always scattered the seaweed throughout the garden. We do not visit the ocean that often, but would you suggest placing seaweed in the composter upon return when we do? Is there anything that we should be aware of when collecting and or using natural seaweed?

Blessings...Hugh

Steve Farmer

Posts: 596

Location: South Tenerife, Canary Islands (Spain)

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posted 9 years ago

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I'm interested to learn if seaweed is ok to compost? I can get loads off a nearby beach but have always avoided as I assume it is covered in too much salt.

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Chris Barton

Posts: 19

posted 9 years ago

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I used to go to my local saw mill and collect saw dust for the compost toilet and other general composting but now I pop to the nearest decidious woods and load up a few bags of woodland litter. Twigs, leaves etc. All at different stages of decomposition. Its loads better then sterile saw dust and it's full of life. Myceliuem, insects, all sorts of diversity.
It's great for mulching as well.

Dale Hodgins

Posts: 9002

Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada

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posted 9 years ago

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I get paid to haul away most of my soil amendments. My tree and hedge work bring in plenty of unsprayed material. Spraying is rare around here.

I sometimes gather the remains from well aged compost bins.

The best way to lay your hands on mountains of organic material is to advertise, and charge for it's removal.
.........
I am the only maintenance guy on this property, so I know that the material from the 320 foot hedge is clean.

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David Good

gardener & author

Posts: 640

Location: South Alabama

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posted 9 years ago

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Seaweed is great if you can get it. I rinse it first, then add it to the compost or right around plants as mulch.

Once thing I've also done to good effect: bring the seaweed home, rinse it, put it in a bucket, cover with water, then use a submersible blender to grind it up.

Let that sit in the sun for a few weeks and it will turn into a mineral-rich (albeit stinky) micronutrient foliar feed. Good stuff.

On a related note: I've now quit using purchased kelp meal, though it used to figure highly in my plans to get micronutrients to my garden beds. Since Fukushima and the massive amounts of radiation that got released into the Pacific, I decided I didn't really want the risk of radioactivity in my gardens. Kelp is a great accumulator of everything, unfortunately.

Alex Veidel

Posts: 129

Location: Elgin, IL

posted 9 years ago

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David Goodman wrote:Since a lot of the traditional sources of scavenge-able material (hay, straw, manure) are now contaminated with long-term herbicides and other toxins, I definitely agree that growing high-biomass plants is a wise choice. I've planted trees I can coppice (various nitrogen fixers, Paulownia, mulberry, sweet gum) as well as fast-growing perennials such as Tithonia diversifolia.

That wouldn't work in your area; however, their cousin Jerusalem artichokes make a lot of biomass and compost readily. As a bonus, they're edible. Chapter 10 of my book is titled "Grow Your Own Compost." You've got the right idea.

And I agree on nettles. Very nutritious for you and the soil.

Jerusalem artichokes are a great idea. I've been thinking about growing some zone 5 bamboo varieties for mulching as well. Thanks!

David Good

gardener & author

Posts: 640

Location: South Alabama

132

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posted 9 years ago

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@Dale Hodgins

Great idea.

And that hedge... whoa. Epic biomass.

Steve Farmer

Posts: 596

Location: South Tenerife, Canary Islands (Spain)

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posted 9 years ago

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David Goodman wrote:Seaweed is great if you can get it. I rinse it first...

The extra biomass would be valuable, but not as valuable as the fresh water i'd need to rinse it with.
Any ideas how to solve this trade off for coastal arid zones?

http://www.facebook.com/TFSForest

David Good

gardener & author

Posts: 640

Location: South Alabama

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Heh. I forget that not everyone lives in a place with monsoons. Bad author. Subtract 10 points!

With low rainfall I would just put it in piles instead of right around plants, then trust that the overall salinity retained at the end of composting won't be a problem. My bet is that it will turn out okay, though you may want to test before taking my word on it. I haven't tried, so I'm taking a shot in the dark. Plants can handle a bit of sodium chloride and even appreciate a touch.

Michael Bushman

Posts: 144

Location: Sacramento, CA

posted 9 years ago

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Don't overlook restaurants!

There is a group of restaurants here in Sacramento called Green Restaurant Alliance that pools food scraps for a group of volunteers who collect the scraps on bicycles using trailers and then brings them to various places to be composted.

They gather a LOT of material.

Steve Farmer

Posts: 596

Location: South Tenerife, Canary Islands (Spain)

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posted 9 years ago

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If rinsing seaweed in monsoon country works then it would work for us. We might only get one rain event a year but it could be a 2 or 3 day monsoon like event in a wet year and is usually forecast a few days ahead. A seaweed pile at the downstream part of the plot could just sit and wait for rain providing we understand that a day or two of rain is sufficient to rinse it and sufficient to carry the salt back to the sea rather than let it soak into the land just downstream. I don't understand how composting would get rid of salt. Would burning seaweed get rid of salt and still leave usable biomasss?

http://www.facebook.com/TFSForest

David Good

gardener & author

Posts: 640

Location: South Alabama

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posted 9 years ago

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"I don't understand how composting would get rid of salt."

It wouldn't get rid of it; however, having seaweed be only one part of the pile would act to dilute it.

As for burning, it seems that the combustion temperature of salt is too high - it would likely just concentrate the salinity in the final ashes:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10163-013-0212-z

Note the burn temps - 500 to 800C!

I think your idea of putting it downstream for rain to fix makes a lot of sense.

Rose Pinder

Posts: 416

Location: Otago, New Zealand

posted 9 years ago

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When I lived on the coast, myself and others locally routinely used seaweeds both on the garden and in composts. The salt wasn't a problem. If you are trying to wash salt off in one location, what is happening to the soil there in terms of salinity? Better to spread the load I think. Although, some seaweed is saltier than others, and quantity is going to be important to how well it fits into whatever system.

There are some sustainability issues with harvesting seaweed. We're taking nutrients out of that particular ecosystem. I think for many of us it's hard to see the impact, because we're not as connected to sea and tidal ecosystems as we are to land based ones.

bud smith

Posts: 31

posted 9 years ago

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Where I am in Ontario, come fall there is an endless supply of leaves that people rake up and put at the curb. They would be more than happy to have someone take it away for them as they are only allowed a 3 bag limit for curbside collection.
There is also an organic drop off location that is run by the city. I've seen people go there and ask for the material from the people dropping it off.
We have a pesticide ban here so most lawn grasses are safe for composting. If in doubt you can source lawn cuttings from from people you know.

David Good

gardener & author

Posts: 640

Location: South Alabama

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posted 9 years ago

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Bud makes a good point.

I've had neighbors dump leaves, straw, jack-o-lanterns and even logs in my yard. They're happy to get rid of it and I'm happy to have it.

Rebecca Norman

gardener

Posts: 2514

Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5

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Rose Pinder wrote:
There are some sustainability issues with harvesting seaweed. We're taking nutrients out of that particular ecosystem. I think for many of us it's hard to see the impact, because we're not as connected to sea and tidal ecosystems as we are to land based ones.

In many regions the problem is that humans are putting too much nutrients into the ocean! (Leaching of nitrogen from septics etc)

David Good

gardener & author

Posts: 640

Location: South Alabama

132

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posted 9 years ago

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@Rebecca

That's an excellent point. Thank you.

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