encouraging physical innovation

paul wheaton wrote:So there seems to be a problem where I ask for innovation in a space, and my word that I desire innovation that space is just not enough.

Correct - you will get no innovation if there is a null set resulting from intersection of the sets of (1) those with an interest in that area of innovation, (2) those with a means to pursue that innovation, and (3) those who hear you ask for innovation in that area.

(I'm trying to make it so clear that even a programmer can understand. [Javaranch member since a long, long time ago.])

BTW - I'm working on the lightbulb challenge. I'm doing some research now and hope to start some physical experiments in a few weeks when my schedule allows.

Bringing all of this back on topic: I thought there would be people that would be interested in playing and would find the reward to be rather large. So I thought we would have five or six people submitting their light bulbs.

I'm open to the idea of doing more of the prizes for innovation angle. But I need to know that people will actually play. I would think it would be good to eventually come up with a dozen different supporters of this effort. For each one I would try to trade ads of one form or another in exchange. Maybe I'll mention them several times or something. Further, I would think that our peeps would show love to the supporters of this sort of thing by going to their web site and buying stuff.

If this latest attempt was a big success then I would have something to point to. But we had zero entries.

paul wheaton wrote:Problem: trying to present permaculture to people. 47% ignore or tune out because they have already done their part to be "green": they bought some light bulbs.

Solution: explain why what they done really doesn't help anything.

Problem: argument mired in details.

Solution: would be good to point to a product that is clearly superior in the aspect of less toxic materials and longer lifespan.

Sunshine....

That is a good summation of the problem, I think. The thing is that no matter which lamp one uses, it is powered by the grid. Assuming a hydro powered grid as we have here, there is still some of our power coming from Stave Lake (or one of the other dams on the lower mainland) and by the time it gets here 90% of that power is gone. Like changing lamp style really matters in that equation. The first step for someone getting off the grid of course is to eliminate most power use. Then lamps matter and then LEDs quickly become the right thing. Most first remote/offgrid power setups start with light and computer/phone. The next thing added is cooling for food (fridge/freezer). Obviously, one would want to design the home to make the best use of natural light before worrying about what supplemental light to add.

The question of multichome and compared to monochrome for health reasons is a good question. That is the main area LEDs are different from CFLs and hot item lighting (includes sunshine, light bulbs and lanterns). Many of the light bulb replacements that use LEDs have filters that, to some extent, absorb one wavelength and emit another, but I don't know how wide the spectrum becomes spread. Of course, none of our artificial lights are a duplicate of the sun itself... arc lamps may come close... considering the number of theaters those have burned down, that may not be a good direction to go.

paul wheaton wrote:Problem: trying to present permaculture to people. 47% ignore or tune out because they have already done their part to be "green": they bought some light bulbs.

Solution: explain why what they done really doesn't help anything.

Problem: argument mired in details.

Solution: would be good to point to a product that is clearly superior in the aspect of less toxic materials and longer lifespan.

I know you're frustrated about this, and as a result are using some hyperbole, but I want to say that in regards to moving people towards living truly "green," I have had great success using your philosophy of encouraging people to take a baby step in the right direction, starting where they are at.

Perhaps that 47% of people is just not ready to think critically about light bulbs. Maybe they are still in the phase where they need to be told to turn off the water while they brush their teeth, or don't run the dishwasher with only three cups in it.

Most of the people that I work with have had very little formal education and are SEVERELY trapped in the consumerism world in an attempt to appear wealthier than they are. When I work with these people, I don't talk to them about how all the packaging from their snacks is clogging up our river; I help them analyze how much of their monthly income they are wasting on unnecessary snacks, and encourage them to pursue true prosperity instead of buying into commercial "development."

We will do this - one brick at a time. I agree that having some new fancy kind of old lightbulb would be a great brick. But I'm not sure it is the right brick to convince those "green" lightbulbers to move in the right direction. I think they were convinced to use CFLs because they were told it would save them money. Perhaps we need to use the same technique as the corporations. Except we'll actually be telling the truth.

As with many things, change comes from sharing dozens of tidbits of information.

For this item, I have plans. I have things I can do. I have experiments on top of experiments that can be proven.

I don't know if this is the right place. I remember Paul talking 'DIY Lightbulb' I sort of stopped when I read the 'old Navy tale' version.

But LOOK:

This guy made one at home in the garage.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Lightbulb/?ALLSTEPS

'jus sayin'

I get the goal and the why.  Combined heating and light in the right season.  Get rid of the toxic stuff.  And finally simplicity as the dream

First off let me say the problem has already been solved.  We just have to duplicate the answer in a way that works in more locations.

Light running since 1901

It doesn't need a replacement filament if we can get 800,000 to 1 million hours out of a single filament.(at least 4X the desired 200k hour life)

Now why has this bulb survived.  1. thicker glass and good seals.  2. rarely turned off so minimal thermal cycling.  3 heavier filament(carbon filament(from a myth busters episode on it)) so it doesn't get as hot, puts out less light and thus survives voltage spikes better, 4. hanging free as a pendant which damps nearly all vibration.

But we have a working design to copy.  So in the engineering sense we need connections and filament supports that will endure physical thermal cycling so the bulb can be turned off and they need to damp vibration.  So some sort of spring and mass damper maybe?  We need some way to prevent voltage spikes from making into the build.  maybe a transformer that works thru the glass so there are no seals to fail?

To work on this the information on building DYI vacuum tubes for electronics should be on the list.  Glass blowing and fusing.  Can't find the recent video I went by on it that was really good but here is a decent start.



Now about the discussion on replacing the filament in design.  Will need a vacuum pump and likely a vacuum chamber for heating and out gassing the bulb with each filament change.  Since we can't do a melted glass seal will need a multilayer seal and it needs to be far enough enough from the heat to survive.  So likely the bulbs will be really long and skinny.  Certainly possible.  But the complexity of doing the change is such that likely a poor choice

How about another path?  Can we build all the filaments into the bulb from the beginning so can be completely sealed?  2 thoughts here.  1.  a spool of filament.  Will need some sort of cutter clamp for each filament and some sort of spool feeder.  Maybe drive both with external magnets.  2.  What about something like a spring loaded feeder that ejects one filament at a time.(maybe something like a dispoable razor box.  In both cases will need some sort of "trash" can for the dead filaments to keep the debris from wrecking the bulb.  Maybe magnetically open the lid and  just roll the bulb around to move the debris into it.  Or some sort of flap trap?

That said are there better answers?

Found the vacuum tube video I couldn't find the other day.  Shows skills and techniques that would be needed for a bulb.

A video that follows up on the bulbs getting worse comments.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/49NikeBCzWo

Still thinking on this.  Here is another good starter video on the thinking.



And here is a good potential for a bulb cover.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/high-borosilicate-glass-lightbulb-cover/190CL11.html

Viton o-rings have a working temperature over 450 degrees F and low permeability.  So maybe one bore seal and one face seal on the above jar.  The jar lid is starting to get fancy to make is a bit of a problem.  But lets assume it is solvable for now.  Put it on with a canning ring or an extra deep canning ring.

Now if it is going to be human repairable with no fancy tools we can't have a a vacuum pump etc needed.

To sort of achieve vacuum what if you put the assembly in the oven an 450 degrees with the bore seal oring just sitting touching the rim so it could burp any air/gas.  Then push it home with everything hot and screw the ring down just like any canning jar.  Won't give great vacuum but should give fair vacuum.  If we played the propane trick from the above video it would eliminate a bit more.  Since propane is heavier than air the "jar" could be filled outside before it went into the oven and capped and brought in for the oven.  It would burp some propane into the oven but would it be enough to be combustible outside the jar?

What if we used man made true carbon fiber thread to start with?  Would that be stronger than the natural fibers?  Maybe the trace minerals from the natural fiber give it strength?  Now the above video talks about rolling it in carbon powder to improve the fiber for light.  And glue the ends as described above in video.  Now you are still going to have trace oxygen in the container and we want to chemically combine it with something.  So what if the thread was rolled in trace amounts of super fine aluminum powder.  When it gets hot it will be super reactive with oxygen.  Forming aluminum oxide which is incredibly stable. (is the fact that it is electrically insulating after combining a problem?)  Guessing the answer is no because the carbon fiber should become more conductive making up for the loss from the aluminum powder.

Right track on thinking? Then another question is it required to do 110V AC or is lower voltage dc count on the final product?