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Safe Using my Van-Packer Chimney?

 
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Hey everyone, I’m new to this forum and I’ve been searching for something related to this for weeks but cannot find a clear answer.

I spoke with a local stove shop owner and he said, ‘it was for a house furnace, not U.L. rated and would catch fire under actual heat’... the label says it will ‘safely withstand 2000F’ and it is UL rated; I don’t know too many 1400sf houses running 2000F furnaces 🤔🙄 He just wanted to make a sale selling 4’ of Class A for $400.

House was built in 1967. In the center, runs a Van-Packer Masonry Safety Chimney. I recently bought a wood burning stove and after a couple headaches with other options, I’ve decided to utilize this VP Chimney.

I’ve found the archived Owners/Install Manual and it appears to be good to go. The only trouble is that when the previous owners had the roof redone, they removed the exterior chimney; so I will cut a new hole and run Class A out.

🚨🔥•••The ‘burning’ question is do more experienced minds think it is safe to use without putting a chimney liner inside?•••🔥🔥

I will run a sweep prior and burn a creosote log for my first fire.

Thank you so much for your replies.
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Basement
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VP Label
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Attic
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Attic2
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Up from basement
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Down from attic
 
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Steve Schindler wrote:I spoke with a local stove shop owner and he said, ‘it was for a house furnace, not U.L. rated and would catch fire under actual heat’... the label says it will ‘safely withstand 2000F’ and it is UL rated; I don’t know too many 1400sf houses running 2000F furnaces 🤔🙄 He just wanted to make a sale selling 4’ of Class A for $400.



At first I assumed this too, but after looking at the pictures, and your text, I think the stove shop owner is correct. the real information that is missing is the protection rating based on TIME. For instance, I think a Class A stainless steel triple wall metalbestos chimney has a rating of 2100 degrees for an hour. Your Van Packer is rated up to 2000 degrees, BUT FOR HOW LONG?

I could see where that type of chimney would be great for an oil or propane furnace because it was a cheaper alternative to masonry chimneys.  But a woodstove has the potential to start a chimney fire and so it could indeed have a long burn time in excess of 2000 degrees for quite awhile.

Now if you find out the Van Packer has a fire rating of 2000 degrees for an hour, or is otherwise comparable to a Class A chimney, then I might use it, but I can see what the stove shop owner is saying, and why. But keep in mind, if you have insurance on your home (I say that because none of my houses do), they might have some impact on what you use for a chimney too.
 
Steve Schindler
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Travis thanks for your reply! Here’s a couple excerpts from the product manual. It appears it can safely be ran at those temps, I doubt I’ll ever get over 1000F though.

••VAN-PACKER CHIMNEY IS TESTED AND LISTED
1. Withstood extreme overfiring with flue gas
temperatures up to 1700° F. without damage.
2 . Withstood severe and repeated heating and
cooling cycles without damage.
3 . Withstood extreme and repeated freezing and
thawing cycles without damage.
4 . Withstood 4-day immersion in sulphuric acid
solution without damage.
5. Withstood severe 4X overloading of support
assembly without damage.
6. Withstood severe and repeated smoke tests
without leakage or damage.

••The Van-Packer is U.L. listed for incinerator service. The fire clay tile lining of the Van-Packer withstands temperatures in excess of 2100° F., completely safe for the sudden and frequent heat shocks from an incinerator.

••APPROVED FOR ALL FUELS — Tested and listed by UL for all home heating plants and incinerators for coal, oil or gas; approved by major building codes. Flue sections consist of 2100° F.

••The Van-Packer is a genuine masonry chimney built to outlast the building it serves. Independent laboratory tests prove it is not affected by extreme temperatures, boiling acid solutions, freezing and thawing, heat shock or building vibration and settling.

••Safe for Incinerators — Regardless of the heating plant, all incinerators require an all-fuel chimney for safe, efficient operation. The Van-Packer all-fuel chimney is UL listed for incinerator service, and has the draft capacity to simultaneously handle a furnace, water heater, and incinerator properly and safely.










Travis Johnson wrote:

Steve Schindler wrote:I spoke with a local stove shop owner and he said, ‘it was for a house furnace, not U.L. rated and would catch fire under actual heat’... the label says it will ‘safely withstand 2000F’ and it is UL rated; I don’t know too many 1400sf houses running 2000F furnaces 🤔🙄 He just wanted to make a sale selling 4’ of Class A for $400.



At first I assumed this too, but after looking at the pictures, and your text, I think the stove shop owner is correct. the real information that is missing is the protection rating based on TIME. For instance, I think a Class A stainless steel triple wall metalbestos chimney has a rating of 2100 degrees for an hour. Your Van Packer is rated up to 2000 degrees, BUT FOR HOW LONG?

I could see where that type of chimney would be great for an oil or propane furnace because it was a cheaper alternative to masonry chimneys.  But a woodstove has the potential to start a chimney fire and so it could indeed have a long burn time in excess of 2000 degrees for quite awhile.

Now if you find out the Van Packer has a fire rating of 2000 degrees for an hour, or is otherwise comparable to a Class A chimney, then I might use it, but I can see what the stove shop owner is saying, and why. But keep in mind, if you have insurance on your home (I say that because none of my houses do), they might have some impact on what you use for a chimney too.


 
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Hi Steve;
After reading your posts and seeing your photos. I would use this chimney.   Fireclay chimneys / riser is what we use with rocket mass heaters.  (In fact, I suggest you build a RMH instead of a wood stove)
Your stove man was doing his job.  Class A is insurance approved.   Like Travis I have no real fire insurance.  I have had a few chimney fires in one of my previous homes.   Imagine waking up to a freight train roaring thru your home.  That's what it sound like ... add in glowing orange single wall pipes and its rather exciting (in a bad way) So I can't blame your chimney guy for being cautious.
Travis has lived his whole life with wood stoves. He has seen family homes burn to the ground...   However his has not, neither has mine.  We take care of our chimneys!    Even a class A chimney can fail.

Properly burning your stove, regular cleaning of the  chimney before each burning season. Don't put to much faith in the "creosote sticks"  Instead invest in a few of the "fire out stick" They will stop your chimney fire while it is roaring.
Always have several fire extinguisher's  mounted in strategic locations. If you have children teach them how to safely exit their bed room window in the event of a catastrophic fire.

Chimney fire's are scary. They can be avoided.  Being prepared is the secret.  Clean your chimney , burn DRY seasoned wood,  Don't load up your stove then shut it down to smolder ... that causes creosote.
Wood burning is wonderful! Nothing beats snuggling up to a wood burner to pull the chill out of your bones!  You can keep all those other forms  of heating... I'll stick with wood!
 
Steve Schindler
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Hey Thomas, thanks for your reply! I wasn’t questioning the veracity of Travis’ reply; I was just answering the questions he had so we could get further to a conclusion. I genuinely appreciate you both in taking the time to write such detailed replies.

I am going to use it! Run a sweep through it first and get it routed back out the roof. I will research making a RMH! I believe I’ve seen a few on YouTube... I’ve been researching all this for the past 2 months and refused to move forward before having someone experienced agree too.

As for the stove guy, he was rude and his store was in complete disarray. I’m a contractor and I know markup first hand. But when you know how much something is being sold for everywhere else, then you decide to sell it for $120 more, it’s not cool. If you’re doing an install, that’s wear your material markups come in, not wholesale.

Again I appreciate both of your help! And look forward to searching around permies and learning some great stuff!









thomas rubino wrote:Hi Steve;
After reading your posts and seeing your photos. I would use this chimney.   Fireclay chimneys / riser is what we use with rocket mass heaters.  (In fact, I suggest you build a RMH instead of a wood stove)
Your stove man was doing his job.  Class A is insurance approved.   Like Travis I have no real fire insurance.  I have had a few chimney fires in one of my previous homes.   Imagine waking up to a freight train roaring thru your home.  That's what it sound like ... add in glowing orange single wall pipes and its rather exciting (in a bad way) So I can't blame your chimney guy for being cautious.
Travis has lived his whole life with wood stoves. He has seen family homes burn to the ground...   However his has not, neither has mine.  We take care of our chimneys!    Even a class A chimney can fail.

Properly burning your stove, regular cleaning of the  chimney before each burning season. Don't put to much faith in the "creosote sticks"  Instead invest in a few of the "fire out stick" They will stop your chimney fire while it is roaring.
Always have several fire extinguisher's  mounted in strategic locations. If you have children teach them how to safely exit their bed room window in the event of a catastrophic fire.

Chimney fire's are scary. They can be avoided.  Being prepared is the secret.  Clean your chimney , burn DRY seasoned wood,  Don't load up your stove then shut it down to smolder ... that causes creosote.
Wood burning is wonderful! Nothing beats snuggling up to a wood burner to pull the chill out of your bones!  You can keep all those other forms  of heating... I'll stick with wood!

 
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Steve Schindler wrote:Hey everyone, I’m new to this forum and I’ve been searching for something related to this for weeks but cannot find a clear answer.

I spoke with a local stove shop owner and he said, ‘it was for a house furnace, not U.L. rated and would catch fire under actual heat’... the label says it will ‘safely withstand 2000F’ and it is UL rated; I don’t know too many 1400sf houses running 2000F furnaces 🤔🙄 He just wanted to make a sale selling 4’ of Class A for $400.

House was built in 1967. In the center, runs a Van-Packer Masonry Safety Chimney. I recently bought a wood burning stove and after a couple headaches with other options, I’ve decided to utilize this VP Chimney.

I’ve found the archived Owners/Install Manual and it appears to be good to go. The only trouble is that when the previous owners had the roof redone, they removed the exterior chimney; so I will cut a new hole and run Class A out.

🚨🔥•••The ‘burning’ question is do more experienced minds think it is safe to use without putting a chimney liner inside?•••🔥🔥

I will run a sweep prior and burn a creosote log for my first fire.

Thank you so much for your replies.



I would put a liner in that chimney, it's full of asbestos. We could sell you 4' of Class A for $200. Been in the stove industry for 35 years.
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