Man, I just got my vehicle tax bill and I think I have seen the light about vehicle ownership. People look at a car payment and say "Oh that's not bad"... But you really have to ask yourself "What is this car really costing me each month?".

[Car Payment] + [Monthly Insurance Cost] + [Vehicle Tax Amount \ 12] + [Yearly Vehicle Registration Cost \ 12] + [Inspection \ 12] + (Yearly Maintenance Costs \ 12) + [Fuel Cost] + [Yearly Oil & Fluid Change Cost \ 12] = Actual Monthly Payment

A car gets you from one place to another. Thats IT! People confuse transportation with status \ identity... A costly mistake! A driveway full of vehicles is a guaranteed path to financial woes. The corporations and governments are thriving on the money they make from your vehicle ownership. Investing it a vehicle is like throwing your cash into an incinerator. Sure, transportation is a necessary evil, but you have to gauge how much evil you are willing to tolerate and understand that when you sign your name on the dotted line you are agreeing to labor for years and years to pay for something. You might be able to buy something much cheaper that will get the job done just as well.

Why do you assume that I've EVER taken a car loan? Or would?

A spreadsheet is a wonderful thing to collect all vehicle expenses and figure out what it costs per day, per mile, or per anything else.

How much you need and what you need varies a lot with where you are.

On the other hand, if you find your vehicle tax bill shocking, perhaps you didn't really consider all the costs before you got started. Might as well start now.

Personally, I walked into it eyes wide open, and I have an excellent idea what it costs me, and how it benefits me, where I am.

I'm not sure why you would assume that I would assume anything about you.

My point was simply that people tend to overlook what the actual cost is. As for my taxes, I'm not overly shocked. It's no secret that the things you own end up owning you. All I was getting at was that those taxes need to be remembered throughout the year and not just at tax time... As with all of the other expenses. It is important to quantify these things when one commutes to work.

We are not in a Roman Chariot race... We don't need shimmering state of the art... We need something with which to transport one's hindparts from point A to point B whilest still leaving some cabbage in the pocket.

Ummm some of us get really nasty looks because of what we drive,,
she is a big crew cab long box one ton...paid for and gets 15 mpg
the license and up keep are not the big bother at all because for us it is not about getting from point A to B all the time but about how much can we haul on the big trailer and in the box to work saving time and fuel.It is not tossing money into an incinerator for us it is about having a dependable rig that is a work horse.....When you live in the boonies it is just a fact of life.Of course you get used to people criticizing your ride of choice when they do not understand it..LOL

So what you are saying is that your vehicle serves a purpose and it is a necessity. Nothing wrong with that! And I can totally relate to living in the boonies.

Like I said... Transportation is a necessary evil. It's very hard to live without it these days... The trick is finding the happy median in which you get to have a vehicle you can use as needed without feeling as though you are working your life away to pay for said vehicle.

OT, but... don't drive, which gets me out of all those costs.
I'd be stuffed if I didn't have helpful people with cars to transport boxes of stuff and piles of things around the place for me. I could cope, and I'm assuming I'll be forced to eventually, but in the meantime, private vehicles are sooo handy!
On the boonies/cars thing: I've always fantasised about moving back 'home' to the country, but I've concluded that being a non-driver in the middle of nowhere, with no public transport and peak(ed) oil is a bad idea.

Brent,
yup that is what I am saying,,,,, people who do not understand our work, think it is called validating a big truck..We don't run big tires, we are not even a 4x4 which many people here in mt cannot understand..Take the last couple days 80miles one way to work, hauling all stone and masonry supplies out into no where,, along with a crew to install =one rig and a trailer to do it ..Flip side we also get odd looks because our other vehicle is a large car with a 460,, from the 70s totally paid for permanent plates...But with a little attachment to the engine she gets 30 miles to the gallon,is big enough that deer cannot damage her nor can the little cars on the road today so she is a built in safety feature..
My son on the other hand drives a nice little honda car that he loves,,he analyzes everything down with a spread sheet ...Other son has 4 vehicles a large work horse diesel that can haul his family out to the woods and bring in a trailer and truck of wood.. an economical car for his lady to drive to work, a medium sized pickup to get himself to work(he has to have a pickup to haul) and a toy jeep that they use for recreation to mud bog and play out at the river..
Everyone has their own way of looking at being frugal with their rigs especially where we live..

Leila.
my mom has never driven either and she is dependent on all of us to get from the tiny town she lives in to go to the doctor for groceries and everything..I really think in larger communities where public transportation is available it is still under used..Flip side my niece is always talking about how granny can live on very little in part of not having to have any type of vehicle to figure into the money mix..She does pay for gas or food which ever she can get other s to allow when we take her...

Back when I hauled horses I had a 'horse hauling vehicle'. I also kept a station wagon very similar to the car seen in the movie Uncle Buck to drive for every day. My big truck was too valuable to my business to just run ragged on other stuff. My daughter HATED riding in the Uncle Buck car. And we got made fun of because of the Uncle Buck car - I didn't care.

Now we get made fun of because of our scooters and our Smart car. I still don't care. I say "All the way to the bank baby". I think that applies whether your vehicle is a big 6 pax truck or a 125cc scooter.

We all need to have the tools that benefit our particular situation and not worry about what the crowd thinks we should be doing.

^^^ Not to derail the thread too bad but why would you buy a smart car if your looking for efficiency? Don't they only get mid to high 30's?

45mpg

Jeanine Gurley wrote:
We all need to have the tools that benefit our particular situation and not worry about what the crowd thinks we should be doing.

A couple hours ago I was planning my next vehicle purchase. The two must haves are low gas mileage and a roof rack. To each their own.

I drive a 2001 honda rebel 250 11 months out of the year 80mpg, $76 per year insurance, paid $900 for it cash, maybe 200 bucks a year on tires and oil. I have an ammo can on the back that can hold 4 gallons of milk [or the equivilant in groceries] the remaining month I drive my van, which is registered as an RV [$120 bucks a year insurance, paid $800 cash] it works pretty well for me

Not having a car is the best choice I ever made, if i need a cage I take my RVan, usually, Im just on my bike

I would HIGHLY suggest getting a used motorcycle for the single person transport. fuel, insurance, upfront cost, fun, its the whole package.

that is exactly why I don't drive and I wonder why so many people are so dependant on their vehicles. i walk everywhere i go, unless it is too far and i have no choice then i'll take the bus or get a ride from someone. i am planning on getting a snowmobile for winter this year, so that i can get more at the grocery store and just for convenience because it is a good 40 minute walk in the snow, but i could probably do it in ten on a skidoo.

Brent Rickenbacker wrote:Man, I just got my vehicle tax bill and I think I have seen the light about vehicle ownership. People look at a car payment and say "Oh that's not bad"... But you really have to ask yourself "What is this car really costing me each month?".

[Car Payment] + [Monthly Insurance Cost] + [Vehicle Tax Amount \ 12] + [Yearly Vehicle Registration Cost \ 12] + [Inspection \ 12] + (Yearly Maintenance Costs \ 12) + [Fuel Cost] + [Yearly Oil & Fluid Change Cost \ 12] = Actual Monthly Payment

A car gets you from one place to another. Thats IT! People confuse transportation with status \ identity... A costly mistake! A driveway full of vehicles is a guaranteed path to financial woes. The corporations and governments are thriving on the money they make from your vehicle ownership. Investing it a vehicle is like throwing your cash into an incinerator. Sure, transportation is a necessary evil, but you have to gauge how much evil you are willing to tolerate and understand that when you sign your name on the dotted line you are agreeing to labor for years and years to pay for something. You might be able to buy something much cheaper that will get the job done just as well.

AMEN! Been using "throw away" cars for years. Buy with cash, run until the cost of repair no longer justifies the vehicle condition/worth and then get another cheapy. A to B is the important factor....I can make an old vehicle last 3-4 yrs or better with regular maintenance without getting into costly repairs. That's 3-4 years of paying lower taxes, no payments, liability insurance, etc.

And I live as boonie as you can get....4x4 access only in winter months and that's only because we have been improving on the access road for 36 years. If we didn't constantly maintain that road we would be walking in and out of this holler like we used to do. No one delivers stuff here, so one has to have a truck to haul wood, lumber, etc.

Kristine Walker wrote:that is exactly why I don't drive and I wonder why so many people are so dependant on their vehicles. i walk everywhere i go, unless it is too far and i have no choice then i'll take the bus or get a ride from someone. i am planning on getting a snowmobile for winter this year, so that i can get more at the grocery store and just for convenience because it is a good 40 minute walk in the snow, but i could probably do it in ten on a skidoo.

One of the major reasons for buying our tiny cottage in town is that we wouldn't be dependent on our cars. They were both paid for and okay, but the cost of fuel was killing us and somehow I just didn't seem to get raises at the same rate fuel was rising....

So now we are 2 to 3 blocks from everything EXCEPT a grocery store. The Wal-Mart age has pretty much gotten rid of any neighborhood grocery stores. That being said, the grocery store and even Wal-Mart are only 1/4 mile or so away which certainly isn't an impossible distance with a small amount of planning. It's very freeing to know your life wouldn't change a lot if your vehicles were suddenly gone.

In fact, we've parked and dropped the insurance and license on the car and are going to sell it to our daughter next spring when she comes back to finish college.

My one big complaint is that most American cities are not designed at all for walkers. We have to brave some fairly dangerous roads to get to a grocery store.

Sherry

Many places have shared vehicle businesses. You need a car on Tuesday afternoon from 1 to 5pm? Just sign up and pick the vehicle type you need for that specific time. You do need to have a licence to drive and you sign up for the temporary insurance for that time period only.

Many places around the world have shared bikes across the city or region. Pick up a bike, use it, drop it off at a drop off site (you get your deposit money back.) The bikes are unique looking so there is no way you could just steal one of those bikes easily and get away with it.

Many places have e-bikes or mopeds for rent. Many places rent inline skates or pedal bikes or even pedal 'cars' for longer distances.

Just sayin'- you may get away from owning a car in certain cities/towns.

If you live in a rural area or a place with sh*tty bus service- well, you probably know that already.

WOW! for a back to the land type of forum it is interesting to see this type of dialog. I can not imagine living and growing what we do with out a truck to haul both inputs and outputs. I have an old beater 86 chevy 3/4 ton pick up that I bought years ago for 2k, it was a retired city road department truck. I only drive it if we need to haul something, like hay, feed, material for mulch, fire wood, building materials, our stock trailer or to deliver items. It is 100% a businesss vehicle and each year we claim its mileage on our taxes. I would guess that it only gets about 12 miles to the gallon, but we make money off of it every year after taxes. I learned years ago that what vehicle I drive does not define who I am. As a matter of fact driving my old beater kind of helps me in my intrepid journeys into urban areas, people seem to get out of my way. It is just something about a used repurposed past utility company vehicle fully loaded with with free mulch that gets the suburban dwellers to veer to the side of the road as I past by.
kent

i happen to agree that the cost of driving and opperate a vehicle is pretty expensive im in my early 30s and if i had owned a small truck their is no telling how much money i would have saved im looking into a low cost form of transportation that i can drive year round that cost little to no money to maintain im not sure about electrice cars are there yet but im not againts them just would like a better range. i have been looking into 3 wheeled cars and would like to build one with the idea of it getting close to 100 mpg or maybe a small electrice car if can pull a small genarator behind it and get a better rang just an idea right know but im starting to put in on paper and doing alot of research

Hi , Everyone.
Im relatively new to this site and have searched alot of the topics and forums, and came across this one tonight while searching.
I had to laugh a little , but thats me.
America is a consumer culture, which runs on petroleum products! Thats how we(america) thrives/grows, run by tv advertisments and pride mentality.
Theres an old saying amongest the trucking industry/truckers. When the truck stops the economy stops. Which is very true! Everything in this country is transported by trucks. Minus the produce grown in your back yard. But where did those seeds come from? And the hoe,shovel,tractor,boxes, cultivator,plastic sheeting , lumber, etc. its all moved by truck. And our cars/pickup/motorcycles are how we bring it home.
It would be great if we could all be farmers and produce everything in small communities, but then where would we get that $ to buy our homes, cars , clothes, college, etc. and travel to see our friend/familes/neighbors.
I currently drive a 2007 prius with about 140,000 miles on it. Which i put on! Its wonderful getting 48 mpg average, and i can haul 10' pieces of wood or metal inside of it. ( wish i could get that plywood in there)! Anyway my point is , without cars/pickups this country would stop. And if your a farmer, well ill let you think about that one. Please dont think im cutting anyone down in here, im just making a point. Without gas this country would stop in a heart beat and the only thing that would run would be the so called justice system which would build more private prisons and cage more innocent people whose only crime was trying to stay warm and eat!
By the way, my intial search was for solar window heaters, since i was curious if anyone here used them and had incorported then into there homes/dwellings!

I just tinker as i think, or think as I tinker!

I tend to use the appropriate technology. If I have to drive across a state, well I want a car, if I have to go from Costa Rica to the USA, I want a plane. If I have a trip to town, I tend to want to use my motorcycle (4 miles) or bike unless I need to haul back a lot, and then of course it is the 3 ton truck.

Recently I was in the USA and needed to drive from MA to Western NY, and then spend a week consulting. The appropriate technology was a Lincoln. Wasn't very expensive, good mileage and oh so comfortable for my wife who had just had surgery... (bet you didn't see that coming!) We probably wouldn't have been able to make the trip if it hadn't been for a luxury car like that. And for tropical flowers like us, it sure was nice to have heated seats in October... lol