window farms

  Rather than take a dump on the idea and the use of plastic bottles how about a suggestion on something other than the plastic bottles if that is an issue.
  Hurricane lantern globes?  Ceiling light fixture glass covers, many have a hole in the center that could allow the drip some even have holes at the perimeter that could be used to hang them.
Let's have less poo-pooing and more do-doing.

I was being somewhat idealistic in my "being torn". It wasn't until I grew my first vegetable, a carrot that I'd planted myself from seed, that I had my Moment of Epiphany and realized that indeed you are what you eat. When I consider the myriad unknown nutrients and substances that Mother Nature provides in Living Soil I couldn't help but understand that the hydroponically-raised tomato, if dissected down to that degree, must surely be sorely lacking compared to the field-grown one.

I agree that it's a huge step ahead from transporting food thousands of miles, but can still set my ideals high that one day city dwellers will have plots of soil that are connected to the Earth from which to get their food.

Plastics degrade in ultraviolet light. It is a very real concern, BPA or not. Glass might be tricky due to it's weight, etc but I would not want to eat food grown in plastic water bottles exposed to sunlight through a window.

Being Idealistic isn't a bad thing.
In the video you see how one persons idea was networked out and through collaboration has really brought in some problem solving system improvements that have added to her original idea.
Heck net bags with burlap wicks from bag to bag might be a bit messier but could address the plastic issue.
What do you see as an alternative to plastic bottles?

If you want solutions... ok top of head.  Just brainstorming

-Soil Cubes http://www.soilcube.com/
-on grates 
-over trays, pitched for run off and solar optimization
-on 'found' reused shelving and pallet wood,
-or a  PVC frame like this guy http://theselfsufficientgardener.com/the-horticultural-engineer-making-a-seed-starting-rack-from-pvc builds *obviously modified for aforementioned reasons
-framed in reflectors

OR get a glass cutter and some liquor bottles, I am sure there are plenty of those in the Apartment recycle bin.

BUT, I am not the one living in the city. 

At the risk of repeating myself, much props to the ingenuity, inventiveness and IDEA, but I still question the implementation (plastic). 

Is there a big difference in the plastic used for water bottles & the plastic used for PVC or hosing?

This seems like a rather obvious solution to not using plastic.

A planter box, a trellis, some soil, a worm bin for continuing fertility.

Just a little attempt at do-doing with some worm poo-pooing (sorry I could not help myself).

here's what the plastic bottles have lead to
http://www.rndiy.com/

a great permaculture project for those of you out there trying to make a profit, would be to design a system for the people in the cities, rather just whine and complain about what they're trying to do

My point exactly.

Duane and Robert,

I don't believe anybody is really whining and complaining, just expressing concerns about deeply held beliefs.

What these people are doing is tremendous and should be encouraged, growing your own food is a great thing.  And certainly a little BPA is not as bad as the chemicals sprayed on the food by commercial farmers.  And while hydroponic produce may not be as nutritious as food grown in living soil, it is certainly every bit as nutritious factory farmed produce grown in dead dirt and fertilized with petroleum products.

However there is a little bit of a disconnect between "window farms" and "permaculture".  At the window farms site they state that their goal is to develop hydroponic window farming, which is input intensive.  Permaculture farming on the other hand after being established requires very little input as creation does the rest.

Sometimes while striving for what you feel is best, you are not as appreciative as you should be of something that is good.

I was trained as a scientist. It is in my nature to immediately try and "find the flaw" and bring it to attention. I always appreciated this from my peers when I was engaged in research: we all knew it wasn't personal, that we were striving to always improve on our work, and a bit of criticism from a friendly face was always welcome. My intent is not to dismiss what these folks are doing. The collaborative community aspect of it alone is fantastic, and it's all definitely as step in the right direction.

But why stop there? Why should city folks have to settle for anything less than the best food they can get? And I worry that when things like this take off, it actually gives people the same false sense of security and ignorance we are trying to get out of with our factory-farmed meats and foods. For example, all my life it never EVER occurred to me that a chicken raised in confinement that never saw daylight or barely moved around would be different in any significant way from one raised on a farm (other than the ethics of it all). I had to really think about this from a grower/gardener's perspective, had to experience watching a teeny tiny seed grow into a carrot, and ask myself: where did the matter come from? How diverse are the elements that comprise that matter? It was only then I appreciated, gradually, that SOIL is the answer to it all. None of this is meant to criticize, but to hold the goal line just that much further out and hope we continue to move towards it.

The other comment is purely practical: given what I've seen of the breakdown of plastics exposed to UV light I would not want to grow my food in one that sits in front of a window all day.

I guess we see it in many different ways, ctriticism is good constructive critiscism better. 

Hydroponics/aquaponics could easily be adapted to or incorporated into permaculture. aquaponics would not be unatural as far as nutrients.

And as some of you have said the the collaboration is an incredible to be copied effort.

Again- I'm a newbie so I don't really know stuff I'm mostly asking so I can learn. It seems to me that if you're in a city digging stuff out of recycle bins, pretty much any container is a crap shoot- Lead in clay pots & some glass, chemically treated wood, chemicals leaching from concrete or rubber... I guess my question has to do with "Leaching" is this an instant occurance or is this an Over Time thing? If over time- how much time? Does leaching happen more in standing liquid or is the rate of potential contamination reduced or sped up by moving liquids? Most appartment dwellers are fairly moble- don't stay in the same appartment for entire lifetimes so I would imagine as a person moves or new technologies come along, there will have to be an evolution process in this little system. Therefore is it likely that the use of this system will make a person overly ill within a growing season or two? Or is the same person more likley to become ill from over use of their microwave? I gatta believe that all things are relative to an idividuals needs. As far as "Permaculture" is concerned isn't embracing hydro/aquaponics just the same as Paul's "Embrace the Comfrey" deffinition? Using all that is available to us? If I don't have access to soil but I do have access to plastic bottles- I think Im gonna grow food any way I can.

Whoa, things got testy while I was away. Interesting.

Anyhow, I ran this by some innovative friends and one said to cast pots out of terracotta (she's a potter though  . I can't see why prefab wouldn't work) another friend suggested glass bottles and I just happen to have seen a great youtube video on cutting them cleanly in a way that saves both the top and bottom. And someone else made reference to the famous hanging gardens in ancient Persia with some really clever technology. I'll have to check that out.

I'm pretty sure most glass these days is relatively free of lead (I say relatively because almost everything everywhere is contaminated with something we don't want  ).  I think glass wine bottles might work ok, with stronger hangers.

Crafty, can you link to that video about cutting bottles?  I want to replace my plastic bottle cloches with clear wine bottles, and need a way to cut them.  Is it the burning string method?

Most of all, I think we need to keep the perfect from being the enemy of the good in these kinds of projects (window gardens and the like).  If people can get interested in growing their food in hanging gardens in their window-sills, maybe they can move on to different ways of growing food in the cities.

Maybe a huge movement in window gardens might encourage builders to build green walls/ apartment greenhouses, etc.

http://www.solviva.com/Greyburg_Greendale.htm