Importance of soil testing

I’m in the process of converting our yard into chicken pasture while establishing a food forest. When we moved in, i got soil samples tested and for some reason kind of disregarded the results since then. I was going to get into frost seeding clover, alfalfa and chicory for the chickens this spring but came across the soil test results again and am wondering if I should wait to frost seed and focus on overall soil health first. Looks like we’re low in potassium and phosphorus and have a ph around 5.8. What do you all think? Is it important and sensible to add the limestone as recommended in the results, or should I focus our efforts on getting good chicken forage established and letting the chickens fertilize for us this summer?

It's easier to raise soil pH than to lower it. Wood ash comes to mind, though I don't know how long the effect lasts. I suspect it should also help with the P and K numbers.

Other than that, I think I would let the chickens and compost do their thing. Maybe retest down the road to see how it's coming.

My 2c. I'm not a soil analysis expert, just a guy who plants gardens.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:It's easier to raise soil pH than to lower it. Wood ash comes to mind, though I don't know how long the effect lasts. I suspect it should also help with the P and K numbers.

Other than that, I think I would let the chickens and compost do their thing. Maybe retest down the road to see how it's coming.

They recommend adding limestone on the results. Ill wait a week or two to see what others have to say and if Im still unsure, I’ll just continue on with the chickens and frost seeding.

I personally wouldn't wait to make everything perfect before planting. If I did that here we'd be without a garden for a few years. Our native soil has almost no measurable nutrition except potassium and yet I got a lot of food out of the garden last year. Optimal chemical values are nice but I don't wait for that when building a more biological-based soil.

Robin Katz wrote:I personally wouldn't wait to make everything perfect before planting. If I did that here we'd be without a garden for a few years. Our native soil has almost no measurable nutrition except potassium and yet I got a lot of food out of the garden last year. Optimal chemical values are nice but I don't wait for that when building a more biological-based soil.

That was basically what my thoughts were as well. That’s probably why I forgot about the results for a few years! I figured I should get some opinions though since I wasnt sure.

There is nothing wrong with the recommendations in the soil report. We're just saying there are many ways to get there. And if you want to hit it with lime, that is okay. It's not like you're dropping poison or anything. Just one more tool in the toolbox.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:There is nothing wrong with the recommendations in the soil report. We're just saying there are many ways to get there. And if you want to hit it with lime, that is okay. It's not like you're dropping poison or anything. Just one more tool in the toolbox.

My original thoughts were that by working chickens across the space and planting some trees with woodchip mulch around them, that over time the soil would improve. But I now I’m just wondering if the trees may have a hard time growing with low phosphorus and potassium. Also, if I do want to apply lime, it would make more sense to do it before planting more trees just because of the obstacle factor.

But if trees will be fine with low phosphorus and potassium, then I may just proceed with frost seeding for chicken forage and not worry about the lime.

Applying lime is not a one time thing, you have to reapply every year or at most every other so if you do decide to go that way you will need to reapply around your trees in the future anyway.

Skandi Rogers wrote:Applying lime is not a one time thing, you have to reapply every year or at most every other so if you do decide to go that way you will need to reapply around your trees in the future anyway.

Surely it must eventually add up and “fix” the lack in the soil right? Or is it just an unsustainable bandaid in order to get pretty test results and then the lime washes away with rain?

It will wash out over time, exactly how fast it does depends on the soil type you have. you may be able to go 3-4 years between applications.
Changing soil pH is a constant fight it's not winnable per se.

It's easier to raise soil pH than to lower it. Wood ash comes to mind, though I don't know how long the effect lasts. I suspect it should also help with the P and K numbers.

As I've understood it, the nonsoluble part of wood ash mainly consists of calcium carbonate (that is, limestone), while the soluble part is mainly potassium carbonate. So, yeah, should help with the K too, although that part is quite soluble and probably washes out quickly if there's nothing to hold it in place. The calcium carbonate probably remains a bit longer.

Skandi Rogers wrote:It will wash out over time, exactly how fast it does depends on the soil type you have. you may be able to go 3-4 years between applications.
Changing soil pH is a constant fight it's not winnable per se.

Very interesting. Well, as far as my original concerns go, I’ll just skip the lime for now and start frost seeding.

I’m not questioning whether or not what you’re saying is true, I’m just genuinely curious because this doesn’t totally make sense to me. We have a decent amount of clay in our soil here, and i could see how that wouldn’t hold lime, or any nutrients as well as something high in organic matter. But there must be ways to alter soil ph more long term, otherwise wouldn’t all soils be neutral? Unless acidic and alkaline soils have some sort of ongoing processes that keep them in that state.

We do have a stand of red pines on one side of our property that have been there for 60-70 years. I’ve read that pines grow in acidic soil, but ive also read that pines make the soil acidic. So, it’s another “chicken or the egg” conundrum. These trees were planted, so it isn’t like they naturally grew because of acidic soil. But maybe they were planted there because the soil was already acidic, or they were just planted and turned the soil acidic...

Either way, I think I took soil samples from 6 spots on the property for the test and only a couple of those spots were near the pines, and certainly not directly under them. Who knows what once grew in our yard though before the house was built. Maybe it was primarily a white pine forest like so much of our area was before the virgin forests were logged.

Eino Kenttä wrote:

It's easier to raise soil pH than to lower it. Wood ash comes to mind, though I don't know how long the effect lasts. I suspect it should also help with the P and K numbers.

As I've understood it, the nonsoluble part of wood ash mainly consists of calcium carbonate (that is, limestone), while the soluble part is mainly potassium carbonate. So, yeah, should help with the K too, although that part is quite soluble and probably washes out quickly if there's nothing to hold it in place. The calcium carbonate probably remains a bit longer.

I would need a lot of wood ash! And probably more organic matter in our clay soil to hold the nutrients for longer. Good to know though! I’ll keep that in mind when planting trees and maybe add some ash to the compost when planting, if what I’m planting prefers more alkaline soil.

Why not go with the seeding and the liming? Plant your seed and run the chickens this season and apply the required lime in the fall.

I am on very similar ground but on the NW shores of the Lower. Getting your pH correct and raising the OM% are the priorities for good production on these soils.

Patrick Harvey wrote:Why not go with the seeding and the liming? Plant your seed and run the chickens this season and apply the required lime in the fall.

I am on very similar ground but on the NW shores of the Lower. Getting your pH correct and raising the OM% are the priorities for good production on these soils.

Thank you, that sounds like the way to go!