Help! My Elderberry shrubs are blooming but only 3 to 4 berries on each cluster

I'm from Mauritius hot tropical Island in the southern hemisphere where it never snow. We have only summer and (not too cold) winter. It's been a year I've successfully cloned my 3 Elderberry shrubs from a mature Elderberry shrub.

Now it's been 3 months that I'm getting lots of blooms from them but then the flowers dried out and died. I see only 3 to 4 berries on each cluster.

Could it be too soon to see the elderberries?

My neighbor very close to my house has an other variety mature Elderberry which means they can cross pollinate. However I've heard that it's a myth, Elders don't need cross pollination to fruit.

Please help me, thank you.

Anisia

Hi Anisia,
No sorry, it looks like your berries have not set.  

I have the same problem here on Skye with my sambucus nigra; Lots of lovely blossom, but not a berry yet!  I'm not sure that elder is self fertile.  Can you remember where you heard this? That is my No. 1 theory as to why mine didn't set fruit.  According to This agroforestry document

"Pollination:
Some individual plants can be self fruitful, but need two varieties to
produce harvestable crop. York and Adams good cultivar
choices.

Not completely understood; thought to be wind pollinated with
some insect assistance but not honeybees. (Univ. Of Missouri Center
for Agroforestry)"

Since you have other mature trees nearby this is not so likely to be the reason your's haven't set though.  I'm busy propagating cuttings from different bushes for mine.

My No. 2 reason was lack of pollinators.  My understanding is that a variety of flying insects are happy to pollinate elder including butterflies.  I'm assuming at the moment that my elder is in too windy a spot for the insects to be able to find the flowers easily.  Could that be a factor for you?  Do you have plenty of flies?

I don't know whether temperature is likely to be an issue.  According to the Woodland Trust elder is native to subtropical as well as temperate regions, so I don't think this is an issue.  Are you sure that the neighbouring trees are flowering at the same time?  Maybe they are just too far away for the insects to carry the pollen.

[quote=Nancy
HI Nancy, thank you so much for replying. Since how long are they blooming, was it recent? Did you propagate by cuttings or seeds? I've heard seeds can take 3 years and cuttings 2 years to set fruits.
Yes, my neighbor has a different variety, he has Sambucus Nigra and I have Sambucus Canadensis.
He doesn't need any other variety, he has only this one. It is giving lots of berries. Both our yards are quite near.
However my 3 Elderberry shrubs (S. Canadensis) which I have cloned from a mature belongs to a friend who stays a road next to me, she has only 1 variety. She told me that she gets more berries in winter than in summer.
See screenshot in attachment, I joined a group expert (Elderberry World) on Facebook where the admin Charlie Little who mentioned that it depends on any plant who attract insects for pollination. Also my local agricultural centers said it's a myth to depend on other variety for cross pollination, it's much more because of lack of rain that is not enough water to produce berries.
I've been told that it can take 1 more year to set berries, I think I must water everyday since it rarely rain these months.
It's been 3 months, my first blooms of Elderberry, could it be too soon to see berries? I'm also propagating S. Nigra from my neighbor's shrub by cuttings.
I'm sad, I wanted my 3 shrubs to fruit, I hope they'll make it.
My 3 mulberry trees (2 Morus Nigra and 1 hybrid) which I have propagated by cuttings (clone) set lots of mulberries after 1½ year, I was worried before same as I'm for my Elderberry shrubs, however I'm happy to see all my 3 Mulberry trees are bearing lots of fruit.
I hope it'll be same for my Elderberry, in winter I see more butterflies than in summer seasons.
Some say it depends on different varieties however I don't think it's really true.

    HI Nancy, thank you so much for replying. Since how long are they blooming, was it recent? Did you propagate by cuttings or seeds? I've heard seeds can take 3 years and cuttings 2 years to set fruits.

My elder are all from cuttings.  So far only the original plant is flowering, but I have cuttings from some locally grown trees and a good flowerer from a more distant grower too growing well.  If you have flowers, I believe you have the potential to set fruit.  So that's the good news.

Yes, my neighbor has a different variety, he has Sambucus Nigra and I have Sambucus Canadensis.
He doesn't need any other variety, he has only this one. It is giving lots of berries. Both our yards are quite near.

OK , a couple of points here.  I think you have a little confusion between 'species' and 'variety'.  See seed site plant classification.  'Sambucus' is the genus, 'Nigra' and 'Canadensis' are different species.  They generally don't cross in the UK because they flower here at different times.  Sambucus Canadensis starts flowering after Sambucus Nigra has finished.  It may be different however with you.  I have no experience with Sambucus Canadensis.  Remember you can still use the flowers.  Martin Crawford in 'trees for gardens, orchands and permaculture'  says that S. Nigra sets better with different varieties, but doesn't mention S. Canadensis except in passing, but I still think if flower pollination is the issue getting another variety (eg. Seed grown) of S. Canadensis will help.

However my 3 Elderberry shrubs (S. Canadensis) which I have cloned from a mature belongs to a friend who stays a road next to me, she has only 1 variety. She told me that she gets more berries in winter than in summer.

This sounds like good news. If she get fruit with hers and only one S. Canadensis variety, then in principal there is no reason you should not do the same.

I joined a group expert (Elderberry World) on Facebook where the admin Charlie Little who mentioned that it depends on any plant who attract insects for pollination. Also my local agricultural centers said it's a myth to depend on other variety for cross pollination, it's much more because of lack of rain that is not enough water to produce berries.

I've been told that it can take 1 more year to set berries, I think I must water everyday since it rarely rain these months.

S. Nigra certainly prefers damper conditions if it likes it here with me on Skye, I don't know so much with S. Canadensis. It is possible that the flowers although setting are aborting due to lack of moisture for the plant.  In that case it makes sense that this will improve as the plant gets older, with a more extensive root system to search out water.  I would suggest concentrating on establishing a really good root system and maybe giving extra water after the plant starts flowering again and as the fruit (if any) are developing.  Maybe even thinning the bunches, so what water there is is dedicated to fewer berries, at least until the plant is more established.  What ever you can do to attract insects with companion flowers nearby may also be helpful.  Umbelliferas are popular with lots of different insects.

Be patient!  It sound like you've done well even to get flowers this year.

I'm jealous of your mulberries.  Even though they probably wont like it here I couldn't resist getting some seed this year....

Thanks a lot Nancy for explaining the difference between variety and specie. Yes, I got confused and wrongly understood. I can't wait to see berries, I'm wondering can I use the elderflowers until next year? I'm hoping I can see the berries next year. I grow them mainly because of the berries.

I'll keep watering everyday, I remember once it was raining heavily for 3 days then saw one cluster with a bit more berries (see third attachment) lol that time I should understand the importance of moist soil. But still l guess this is less than a normal one.

My shrubs have grown and became bushy, I just cut few branches same for 1 of my Mulberry.  Also I noticed I made a big mistake, 1 Mulberry and 1 Elderberry are planted too closer, these 2 are growing higher than the rest and spreading like crazy. (see first 2 attachments) I'm worried, it's too late they're too big to transplant now. However my 2 other Elderberry shrubs and 2 Mulberry trees have good distances between each other.

Today I just spotted a new Mulberry which 3 months ago I've only pocked a 9 cm cutting in the soil of my backyard, I'm surprised it's thriving also I can feel the roots. (last attachment)

You're right for the elderberries once the roots will be well established, propably will not need that much water. I just hope so.

I'll update if any chance I'm seeing berries 🙏❤️

Oops sorry, I think I've posted same thing several times, got an issue with my browser 🤔

It looks like bird attack to me too. Here you can cut it really hard and it always comes back as its a fairly weedy tree. This would give you the opportunity to keep it small and net it (though the birds typically don't bother them here presumably because they are so abundant). I could assume the same could be said for Mauritius but honestly I could be completely wrong, so perhaps once its reasonably well established you could try lopping off a third and see if it comes back as it does here in the cool temperate.

HI Henry, I would really wish that is true unfortunately I've observed and found the flowers dried and fell from the cluster, no berries are formed sadly only 3 to 4. See the attached picture, I just took a picture, it's already dark night. When the flowers are dried and I try to shake it, the dried flowers fall. It seems not enough strength which could be the shrub is too young, it's first time, since 3 months all my 3 shrubs are blooming. Also could be a lack of rain as well as not enough pollination. I'll grow more perennial plants to attract insects.

I would bet that your local ag center is correct, that a lack of moisture is the issue. Here in the States where S. Canadensis grows as a native, you'll find it along the side of streams and in ditches by the roads where it can get ready access to water. It can fruit in its first year but I think it does need steady water during the growing season.

Anisia Seeruttun wrote:HI Henry, I would really wish that is true unfortunately I've observed and found the flowers dried and fell from the cluster, no berries are formed sadly only 3 to 4. See the attached picture, I just took a picture, it's already dark night. When the flowers are dried and I try to shake it, the dried flowers fall. It seems not enough strength which could be the shrub is too young, it's first time, since 3 months all my 3 shrubs are blooming. Also could be a lack of rain as well as not enough pollination. I'll grow more perennial plants to attract insects.

Ok that is interesting, obviously if you are growing out of its typical range you might have problems and perhaps you don't have the usual pollinating insects to do it. They do smell kind of like cat wee at the end of the bloom and I guess that attracts the flies here!  Perhaps If you pollinate a small cluster with a brush you can work out if that is the case or perhaps Matt is right about the water, in England we get quite a bit of rain here so its not something I tend to consider!

Hi Matt Mill, thank you, you're right it can fruit the same year, that's why I'm worried. Normally in summer, in the months January to April, we should get more rain but this year is completely different. I'll keep on watering all the 3 shrubs in that case.

Yes Henry, I see few bees in early morning, more paper wasps however in winter I can see more butterflies and moths than in summer. I've not noticed cat wee smell from my elderflowers, they do have a nice floral almost perfume scent when the flowers are just opening in full sun, then not a distinct smell when they are drying, however I do smell some kind of cat's pee from my neighbor's shrub which is S, Nigra. It could be the reason of lack of insects. I'll try the brush method for pollination, good idea, thank you.

I still believe it's lack of rain as well as Matt Mill has stated. I have to keep on watering.