Bramble(Rubus) Species / Hybrids

I have a brambles that I want to get identified. I have only recently started foraging for these sorts of things. Also planning on some Rubus breeding in the future - I believe that I have maybe 3 - 4species in the wooded area nearby - possibly hybrids as well. I can't post any berries yet because nothing has really developed.

I live in Pennsylvania if anyone is wondering. I know for sure that one species that is growing in the woods is Rubus occidentalis due to the berries, purple / white canes.

The other types are all blackberries - easy to tell from the flowers, one type is sort of creeping - maybe R. ursinus ?

Another has large canes - only growing in the clearing of the woods. Maybe R. allegheniensis or R. pensilvanicus

The final type has huge leaves, only recently appeared here. Only one plant has flowered this year. Lot of buds dropped before the flowers came out on that plant.  Most of these plants seem to sprawl rather than grow upwards. Odd to see combined with the large leaves. Generally a large leaved plant would prefer full sun - all of the plants in this group are quite variable. This makes me think that they could be a group of hybrids.

My main reasoning for wanting to know the species is for breeding - finding out species and their general ploidy count would be nice. I have some feral strawberries in the woods as well - nice area to forage berries.

I will post the the creeping-crawling plant first. If nobody knows for certain what it is, I can wait for fruit to appear.

There is a strawberry seedling with about three leaves at the base of this plant. I would rip it out, I don't want to disturb the flowering plant though.

The images of the flowering one are different than the leaf / stem images. The petals fell off other plant when I was messing with it.  The leaves look different on these plants. A strawberry hybrid would be interesting, but unlikely. Would probably be sterile anyway.

Here is the large possible R. allegheniensis - took image of the largest plant. I can go into the thicket and get images of stems / leaves if anybody want me to. They are becoming sort of diseased though - probably due to new trees taking away their patch of sunlight. This plant in particular is a few feet tall - loaded with flowers. I will actually have to bend the cane a bit to actually harvest the berries - unless birds get to them first, which is likely...

Posting the huge leaved type.

Only one of these is flowering so far - some buds are falling off - brown. Unsure of how old it is - the others aren't flowering, they could be sterile or too young to flower.

Some size comparisons with a 4-pack cell - should help with scaling.

The first image has large types, whatever else was near them.

The second image has all sorts of leaves.

Flowers from two large leaved plants.

The flower petals are slender compared to the trailing blackberry and thicket blackberries. Could be an R. occidentalis hybrid. The fact that there are so many of these plants is interesting.

A blackberry / black raspberry hybrid could be fun for breeding purposes.

Went around and harvested some blackcap raspberries (R. occidentalis).

Posting some possible hybrid berries, along with the standard type for comparison. Could be hybrids with the large blackberry or trailing type.

First image is a possible hybrid with R. idaeus - it works for a fruit size / shape comparison though. Everything else is in a thicket, hard to take picture of.

Second image is a possible hybrid with R. occidentalis and some sort of blackberry, I am guessing.

The other images are berry comparisons. The last image has another possible blackberry hybrid, found in the thicket.

I probably won't have many seed, lot of flower drop on the possible crosses from what I could tell.

Assuming you can spare a few, to check for flavor, how does it taste?

William Bronson wrote:Assuming you can spare a few, to check for flavor, how does it taste?

I got juice from one of them on my finger yesterday. Tasted sweet, no tartness.

Tried a section of a berry today. Seemed sweet, no acidity - tartness from what I could tell.

Could be R. ursinus x R. occidentalis based on how the berries look.  R. ursinus is somewhat of a new addition to the woods by my house, birds must have brought it from somewhere. I have heard that R. ursinus is quite sweet, the berries here are still ripening.

Stems on both of the plants that I found were pretty slender / small, which would also support the theory.

I would try a few more berries, but I don't want to chew the seeds by accident.


I could probably make something similar to Loganberries which are a cross between R. idaeus and R. ursinus. Or I could just use the hybrids for crossing with other species, differing ploidy counts will occur in the offspring.

Of course both parents are wild types, so no huge fruits.

I found out what the typical cane looks like for the hybrid.

They seem to have dark red canes, some white streaks. I had seen these earlier in the season and figured that they were just sick plants.


Not seeing any new canes pop out of the ground around these ones...

I looked specifically for these canes and found more berries / plants.

The crawling plant might be a dewberry? Common Dewberry on Illinois Wildflowers

Mk Neal wrote:The crawling plant might be a dewberry? Common Dewberry on Illinois Wildflowers

Looks quite similar...

Rubus species are annoying to identify.

These look like trailing blackberries/pacific blackberries/Rubus ursinus. I have them everywhere here!



This dude looks like the himalyan blackberry monster we have here. I haven't ever really had any crosses between it an my trailing blackberries, and I have both co-existing.



This looks like blackcap raspberries. I have a bunch outiside just ripening. Both blackcaps and trailing blackberries ripen about the same time in my area. The himalyan blackberries are a month later. Blackcaps taste sweet and not tangy when full ripe. Trailing blackberries are a flavor explosian of tangy delighfulness. I love both.



Both look like blackcap raspberries to me. The right one is more ripe and was not evenly pollinated, white the other is not yet ripe and fully pollinated.



All look like blackcaps that I might pick outside!



This looks like a 2nd year cane of a blackcap. Look for frosty blue 1st year canes growing next to it. This is a first-year blackcap raspberry cane:

first year blackcap cane

This shows a good diversity found in blackcaps. They're more red when not fully ripe, and black when fully ripe. Some canes will bear bigger berries than others, depending on soil, vigor of cane, etc.

Yeah a lot of the blackcaps weren't pollinated very well.

The other blackberries have now become huge as well, probably himalyan types.

I took an image of the canes with odd berries on them because they are different from other blackcaps, the off-types also had the same off-type berries / taste. And the off-types don't have new canes popping out.

I will probably try taking some more typical blackcap canes if I get the chance.


I usually pick some of the blackcaps slightly unripe because birds swarm them if they are all left in bunches to ripen.

Thanks for all of the ideas to what everything could be.

Posting some plants, possible hybrids or variations.

First image has a large R. occidentalis - second image has it's cane.

Third image is a standard occidentalis cane for my area.

Another odd type - easy to tell that these occidentalis due to the white coating on the canes that rubs off. Probably a hybrid judging from the larger leaves.