Anyone farming pinyon trees?

So my area is hardiness zone 6a, 6300 ft altitude, with 16 inches of rain per year in southern Colorado. After much exhaustive searches of plant databases, the only tree I can find with enough significant calories to feed my family is the pinyon tree and its edible nut. As alternatives I investigated beaked hazelnut, but it likes to grow in oceanic climates and doesn't respond well to early or late freezes. Pecan, chestnut, and walnut need too much water. Hardy Uzbek pistachios and hardy almond are a possibility, but are not available in large enough numbers or low enough price to cover 7 acres. Soooo... that leaves the pinyon. If I am wrong on any of these points, then please correct me, but also provide a link where I can buy that alternate tree.

Does anyone have any experience with maintaining an orchard of pinyon? Any helpful hints? Can you make the trees produce more often than once every four years? What are some good companion plants or nitrogen fixers? What are your average yields and what increases pounds per acre? Anything else you can tell me about managing pinyons would be welcome.

Very interested and working on it. I tried a few awhile ago, but they were too small. Going to try again soon, but grow the small ones for a bit. A couple that I have that made it through the phoenix summer. Planning on putting them in soon. Debating whether or not to use agri-gel, because its a remote location. Why the first round didn't make it.
Have you found a source for them? I've gotten them from Idaho u. for small cheap ones and onegreenworld for specific types, both good sources. Different types could be a factor in productivity and size. I say buy a few different ones asap and get them in to see for yourself and a lot of small cheaper ones.
I had 1 pea in a pot with a redwood and it looked way better than the other one. I would try normal cover cropping and see what likes the area and how the tree responds. There's Siberian, Italian and Korean. Maybe there is large scale somewhere there. I haven't checked, but I think southwest ones were just collected when available
I want enough eventually to be able harvest and extra for animals
They're all for a property north of Heber, Az. But there's a California grey pines that looks like it doesn't mind the heat

I am blessed with a few acres of standing pinyon so I just scoop up the seedlings from that area. The survival rate for stunning pinyon seedlings here has been 2/3 so far. I have noticed that the seedlings want some shade. They are used to growing in the understory of their parent tree and grow with the parent until the that elder tree dies and they can take it place (kinda like getting an inheritance of organic material). So I have been putting a light layer of brush around them. Thankfully the deer don't eat them. I am interplanting them with New Mexico locust, Russian olive, and mountain mahogany for nitrogen fixation. Later I am going to upgrade to siberian pea shrub, black locust, and honey locust as the nurse trees.

So where to get them. For some reason, Utah and Arizona don't have a subsidized seedling program. I know New Mexico and Colorado offer them biannually in the Spring and Fall. Otherwise, hit me up in a year and I can send you some seed when my trees finally put on some cones.

Anyone a little worried about little pinyon bear? I mean it's 4-7 years between harvests. At 250 lbs per acre it would take 14 acres to feed a family of five if you gathered 99% of the nuts. So I am now looking at alternatives that bear yearly. So far, I have burr and texas oak (20-30 years before I see my first acorn), gambel oak (also take a while to produce), beaked hazelnut (I have heard stories of hazelnuts NEVER producing in CO), yellowhorn (lack of specific plant data), and the Uzbek pistachio (at a cool $40-60 per tree).

I can't recall or find the reference now, but many years ago I read about how natural "improved" piñon "orchards" had become established through the favouring/ maintenance/ propagation of selections by native peoples over long periods of time.  

My own new planting, with judicious irrigation, has taken over two decades to grow taller than me, & not yet borne anything.  

However, I wonder if anyone has done or is interested in reconnaissance of quality nuts for return harvesting & wider planting?

I'm also very interested in this. I have about 50 acres of pinyon/juniper forest, likely old growth as far as I can tell, and I hope to maximize the nut production of the pinyons and possibly start a long-term breeding project if I can. I have not yet heard of anyone who has managed these trees using orchard techniques. The local indigenous people still carry the tradition of harvesting the wild nuts, and they sell them out of the backs of their cars on the side of the road every fall. So it's definitely a plant that's culturally valued, which makes me wonder whether the lack of attention from modern agriculture is due to bias, or actually because the trees don't take well to being cultivated...

Josh Warfield wrote:I'm also very interested in this. I have about 50 acres of pinyon/juniper forest, likely old growth as far as I can tell, and I hope to maximize the nut production of the pinyons and possibly start a long-term breeding project if I can. I have not yet heard of anyone who has managed these trees using orchard techniques. The local indigenous people still carry the tradition of harvesting the wild nuts, and they sell them out of the backs of their cars on the side of the road every fall. So it's definitely a plant that's culturally valued, which makes me wonder whether the lack of attention from modern agriculture is due to bias, or actually because the trees don't take well to being cultivated...

I'd also be keen to some experimentation along these lines. Maybe you could try pruning a few trees and see what happens.

So my understanding is Pinon's take 20 to 30 years of maturity to start producing. I mean It’s not that they aren't worth having around, but thats a long time to wait for a return. Wild foraging pine nuts for now seems more of a viable option. At least here in Utah which we have the same trees. I have Almonds and walnuts here and lots of fruit trees but am at 4500 feet its quite different. Goji berries do really well and our bush cherries are taking over the neighbors unmaintained back yard.

Ryan Walker wrote:So my understanding is Pinon's take 20 to 30 years of maturity to start producing.

I've also heard that they're super slow to mature, but I've seen trees on my property that are shorter than me but already producing nuts. I doubt those are 20 years old already, if so they're absurdly slow-growing for a pine. Maybe what people mean is that it takes 20 years to get *full* production -- those little guys might only have a dozen cones on them; not worth your time to harvest as food, but plenty enough for seed. Or maybe there's significant variation between individuals for how long they take to mature (in which case I should maybe start with collecting seed from the youngest trees I can find)?

I have had some experience in two different places in NM. First at about 5000 feet and then 6500. In the first case, I planted about 100 trees around the property (not an orchard).  Moisture average only about 8 inches per year.  With regular watering, many grew pretty fast up to 6" per year.  Without irrigation, they died. Worms were a constant problem both new growth and trunks. Bark beetle infestation killed nearly all of them one year when they were 12 to 20 feet tall. Second place had them scattered over 40 acres naturally. They varied from small to mature (25 to 30 feet tall). About 13 inches annual moisture. No irrigation. Typical growth a couple inches a year. Again, bark beetles wiped them out both young and old. Now nearly all are gone. Junipers survive-often inter-grown.  I never made any serious effort to harvest nuts but they are supposed to be one of the most complete nutrition sources there is.  Native people over the ages used them to sustain life over winter when gardens did not produce and game was scarce as they store well. A fair number of locals collect from natural stands every fall.  You can tell a year in advance which trees are going to yield. I would be inclined to put cloth or plastic on the ground under trees likely to yield well in advance of nuts starting to drop.  Many years ago I found a book in an Albuquerque library on these trees and there nuts. Don't remember any details about the book.

Yes they are slow to mature. Anecdotal observations that different trees behave somewhat differently. Some seem to grown considerably faster than others. Some seem to nut more frequently. Some have heavier crop than others.  I have no idea how to differentiate varieties.

Bottom line, I would scout out naturally growing stands and monitor them for next season nutting rather than try to plant for harvest.

Great info & interest!  Maybe we each/ all continue research & recon, then share.  My focus will be mapping best stands, conditions, seasons, practices.  Eventually good to plant for future generations once we have the wherewithal.  (To my knowledge, most quantities are actually lifted from packrat middens!)  

Recently came across obscure local references on SoCal native palm use & improvement of fruit, which was totally eclipsed by settler introduction of exotic dates.  Also, years ago about largest/ tastiest (awarded!) chestnuts in Alpujarras: long-selected natives now declining due to climate/ acequias/ fire.  

In my forestry back east (think black walnut, hickories, etc) there's a noticeable decline in good seed years as well as good regeneration successions (particular seasonal conditions recurring a few times).  

I'm ramping up a northern NM project now at upper limit of elevation range, where drainage & infiltration earthworks could significantly improve prospects over the long term.