Infected chicken?

So, I noticed this morning that one hen was very slow coming out of the coop. Everyone else ran out (literally) and she just stood there on the roost. When she came out a few minutes later, I checked her out and saw that the area around her eye (sinuses?)is a bit swollen/inflamed. Now this afternoon its even worse.

Before I ask for advice, I’ll give a bit of a backstory in case that helps...

These chickens are all just over a year old. We’ve never legitimately “dewormed” them or given any antibiotics or medicated feed. I spike their water with oregano oil, ACV and black walnut hull tincture on a rotation. I also ferment feed and add yogurt and garlic to their feed a couple times per week. Fresh water daily, and about once a week O actually wash the waterers with soapy hot water. Bedding in the coop is primarily commercial wood shavings, except in the winter I mix dried leaves and pine needles as well.

Since last year, we’ve had 2-4 hens with messy butts regularly. Even once we clean and trim them, within a few weeks they’re messy again. We also lost 4 chicks a month or so ago. They were all a week or two old and 1 by 1, started looking tired and weak. Within 12 hours they would be limp, unable to eat or drink or hold up their heads, start gasping and die. I attributed this to vitamin deficiencies from possibly spoiled or mislabeled chick starter that I had bought. Swapped out the feed and the other chicks and chickens seemed fine until about a week ago. One started wheezing with every breath (in and out) which lasted about 3 days. I didn’t notice any other symptoms and looked in her mouth and saw no worms. I used oregano oil and the next day she stopped wheezing. This was one of the hens with the messy butts.

Now this one with the swollen sinus/eye area may be the same chicken that was wheezing. Theres a 50% chance because she has a sister that I cant tell apart from her.

So, I don’t know what to do. Broad spectrum antibiotics are a last resort for me, but i am willing to use them if that seems like the best choice of action. The only thing is, we have no way of knowing whether this is bacterial or viral so antibiotics may do more harm than good, not to mention egg withdrawals. Shes not oozing anything that we could send in to get analyzed. And from my reading, swollen eyes can be a symptom of many different issues, one being respiratory infection.

I will admit that their coop is dusty. I completely swept out the coop, dusted with diatomaceous earth and changed bedding back in April or May, but have just been adding to it since. Its not very dirty or soiled in there but definitely dusty. Should I change bedding and wipe all the dust out, get an antibiotic, wait it out and have faith in the oregano oil, or something I’m not even considering?

Any advice is appreciated! Ill add a picture if I can get one.

It sounds to me that you are a very careful chicken owner. I myself do not medicate, and I do not wash out the water tanks or do any other sort of preventative health thing. Occasionally I will notice that there is a clump of wet or damp feed in my barrel that will begin to get moldy(ish) and I discard it. But other than shoveling out the manure in the coop, the chickens take care of themselves.

I've never had any die from illness, I've had them die from predators and once I had some chicks get a bit to hot.. Lost a few.

My personal thought is that the chicken got something in the eye, which can happen if its pecked or poked. Or that the chicken has a cold, these things happen. My advise is to make sure that particular chicken is eating and drinking, maybe separate her from the flock to better oversee the food and water.

Chickens are pretty tough.

Ben House wrote:It sounds to me that you are a very careful chicken owner. I myself do not medicate, and I do not wash out the water tanks or do any other sort of preventative health thing. Occasionally I will notice that there is a clump of wet or damp feed in my barrel that will begin to get moldy(ish) and I discard it. But other than shoveling out the manure in the coop, the chickens take care of themselves.

I've never had any die from illness, I've had them die from predators and once I had some chicks get a bit to hot.. Lost a few.

My personal thought is that the chicken got something in the eye, which can happen if its pecked or poked. Or that the chicken has a cold, these things happen. My advise is to make sure that particular chicken is eating and drinking, maybe separate her from the flock to better oversee the food and water.

Chickens are pretty tough.

I feel like a very careful chicken owner but am almost constantly having new issues arise! Kind of frustrating, but I suppose if I paid less attention maybe I would just be less aware of the issues.

I dont think it’s directly an eye issue because her other eye is a bit swollen as well. Definitely worse on one side though. And when I held her up to my ear, I can hear that her breathing doesn’t sound great. Theres some gurgles and rattling like she has phlegm or mucous building up. She is eating, drinking and getting around just fine though, and she doesn’t look any worse this morning than she did yesterday. I spiked their water with oregano oil again and some strong echinacea tea hoping that it is beneficial for chickens respiratory systems like it is to ours.

On the topic of isolating chickens from the flock: how do you go about this? I bought a dog crate for this purpose and haven’t had good results yet. Typically, I spend 5 minutes chasing an already sick or injured and stressed out chicken around to catch it. Now its even more stressed. Then I stick it in the crate and she does everything possible to try to get out. She shits all over, spills the food and water, squaks a bunch and then I feel like I’m torturing her so I let her out. And that has been the case with the crate in the garage away from the flock or even with the crate in the middle of the run surrounded by the flock...

There is no easy answers here. This could be multiple, separate issues, or a cascade where one thing leads to another as vitality declines.

There is the "throw the kitchen sink at it" method, and hope something works and it goes away, or investigate. Treat the "symptoms" or see if you can discover the cause. In this instance with multiple oddities having occurred, within a short span, my gut questions if they are connected or related in some way, and not separate issues. I'm guessing you also have a niggle wondering the same thing, as you have provided a comprehensive and honest history.

Is it parasites, bacteria or something like coccidia that is causing this returning elimination (mucky vent) issue.  All of the above can weaken birds (who will NOT show it until they are very ill), and cause illness or death. They can also leave the afflicted susceptible to secondary infections that may be life threatening.

The absolute first thing I would do is spend the money for a stool test at the vet from one who currently has a messy vent. This will give you a starting point.

I suspect once the test results are in you may well have your answer.

That said, these all could just as easily be unrelated. The eye in question sounds like potentially an infection of the nares (nostrils) such as an abscess (bird abscesses are not liquid, the "pus" is generally solidified, or clay/paste like and does not rupture and ooze like a mammal abscess) and/or foreign body; but could easily be a host of other things - there are parasitic worms that can colonize bird throats and throughout the respiratory system.

If having the eye seen by a vet is Not an option, the stool sample of those with "active" mucky butts would be the next best option to narrow things down.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:There is no easy answers here. This could be multiple, separate issues, or a cascade where one thing leads to another as vitality declines.

There is the "throw the kitchen sink at it" method, and hope something works and it goes away, or investigate. Treat the "symptoms" or see if you can discover the cause. In this instance with multiple oddities having occurred, within a short span, my gut questions if they are connected or related in some way, and not separate issues. I'm guessing you also have a niggle wondering the same thing, as you have provided a comprehensive and honest history.

Is it parasites, bacteria or something like coccidia that is causing this returning elimination (mucky vent) issue.  All of the above can weaken birds (who will NOT show it until they are very ill), and cause illness or death. They can also leave the afflicted susceptible to secondary infections that may be life threatening.

The absolute first thing I would do is spend the money for a stool test at the vet from one who currently has a messy vent. This will give you a starting point.

I suspect once the test results are in you may well have your answer.

That said, these all could just as easily be unrelated. The eye in question sounds like potentially an infection of the nares (nostrils) such as an abscess (bird abscesses are not liquid, the "pus" is generally solidified, or clay/paste like and does not rupture and ooze like a mammal abscess) and/or foreign body; but could easily be a host of other things - there are parasitic worms that can colonize bird throats and throughout the respiratory system.

If having the eye seen by a vet is Not an option, the stool sample of those with "active" mucky butts would be the next best option to narrow things down.

You’re correct on thinking I’ve got a “niggle” wondering if this is all connected. Since day one with our first chicks, we have had at least some issues. One pasted up right away, and we named her Struggles because we thought she was going to die. She pulled through, they all matured (and pretty much look identical so most dont have names and we no longer can identify Struggles with certainty). Ive considered maybe she pasted up because of a parasite or virus and that the issue never fully has resolved, its just festered and changed for the past year. Maybe it’s the source of all the other issues. All things are connected one way or another, even if indirectly.

The one who has the eye/sinus issue and messy but also sounds like shes got issue breathing. She was probably also the one wheezing last week. When I hold her up to my ears I can here a rattle/gurgle sounds once in a while.

I like the idea of a fecal sample. I’ll definitely call some local vets to see if any of them are willing and able to help. The struggle will probably be getting a poop from her without causing more problems! I suppose I could crate her, which would probably make her freak out and take a panic shit which I could collect. I never have good experiences putting chickens in a dog crate for isolation, but maybe the stress would get me the poop I need for testing!

I think you're on the right track getting a fecal sample tested to see if there's a root cause behind all these issues.

Brody Ekberg wrote: I will admit that their coop is dusty. I completely swept out the coop, dusted with diatomaceous earth and changed bedding back in April or May, but have just been adding to it since. Its not very dirty or soiled in there but definitely dusty. Should I change bedding and wipe all the dust out, get an antibiotic, wait it out and have faith in the oregano oil, or something I’m not even considering?

Seems like there'd be no harm in cleaning the coop out and wiping out the dust. Removing any extra burden on the respiratory system like dust seems good. It's probably not the cause, but I wonder if the diatomaceous earth could be exacerbating things? It is quite the respiratory irritant, especially if it's getting kicked around, like chickens tend to do.

Oregano oil is good stuff, pretty powerful. If you have access to fresh herbs, I find those to be really helpful. My chickens devour oregano, thyme, plantain, comfrey and dandelion with the same fervor they have for bugs. I believe all that nutrition can really support the chickens to be healthy. This is absolutely not to say you shouldn't seek testing and other remedies if needed, just that providing all the support you can until you know what's going on seems good.

It might not work with your chicken, since it sounds like she's not a fan of being handled, but wanted to share anyways. Yesterday, one of my chickens was acting really low energy and one of her eyes was closed. I think she probably bumped something or took a peck to the eye. I took her aside and made sure she ate some food and drank water, but she wasn't too enthusiastic about either. I put a plantain and calendula compress on her eye for a couple minutes. She actually seemed to enjoy this. After a few minutes, she got up and seemed much more energetic and was opening her eye. She ate a bunch of food and a whole sprig each of oregano and thyme from the garden. Today, she has the eye open and is acting like her normal self. I also put some Green Goo respiratory care salve under her beak and wings, just in case.

I think the limited visibility really interfered with her ability to eat and drink, so making sure your chicken is getting food and water is huge. Maybe instead of crating her, you could take her somewhere away from the others and sit with her and offer her food and water? With mine, I had to tap at the water and food to encourage her, much like you would to teach a chick about them. Maybe try a compress for the eyes, if she'll allow it. Obviously, she has other things going on, so the compress would just be supportive care to give her some comfort and maybe make it easier for her to see so she can move about, eat and drink.

I hope you get to the bottom of this so your chickens can all be happy and healthy!

Heather Sharpe wrote:

Seems like there'd be no harm in cleaning the coop out and wiping out the dust. Removing any extra burden on the respiratory system like dust seems good. It's probably not the cause, but I wonder if the diatomaceous earth could be exacerbating things? It is quite the respiratory irritant, especially if it's getting kicked around, like chickens tend to do.

Oregano oil is good stuff, pretty powerful. If you have access to fresh herbs, I find those to be really helpful. My chickens devour oregano, thyme, plantain, comfrey and dandelion with the same fervor they have for bugs. I believe all that nutrition can really support the chickens to be healthy. This is absolutely not to say you shouldn't seek testing and other remedies if needed, just that providing all the support you can until you know what's going on seems good.

It might not work with your chicken, since it sounds like she's not a fan of being handled, but wanted to share anyways. Yesterday, one of my chickens was acting really low energy and one of her eyes was closed. I think she probably bumped something or took a peck to the eye. I took her aside and made sure she ate some food and drank water, but she wasn't too enthusiastic about either. I put a plantain and calendula compress on her eye for a couple minutes. She actually seemed to enjoy this. After a few minutes, she got up and seemed much more energetic and was opening her eye. She ate a bunch of food and a whole sprig each of oregano and thyme from the garden. Today, she has the eye open and is acting like her normal self. I also put some Green Goo respiratory care salve under her beak and wings, just in case.

I think the limited visibility really interfered with her ability to eat and drink, so making sure your chicken is getting food and water is huge. Maybe instead of crating her, you could take her somewhere away from the others and sit with her and offer her food and water? With mine, I had to tap at the water and food to encourage her, much like you would to teach a chick about them. Maybe try a compress for the eyes, if she'll allow it. Obviously, she has other things going on, so the compress would just be supportive care to give her some comfort and maybe make it easier for her to see so she can move about, eat and drink.

I hope you get to the bottom of this so your chickens can all be happy and healthy!

The fecal float test will only be relevant if she has parasites right? Like it’s not going to give me any information about bacterial infection or viral infection will it?

I figured the DE could be causing respiratory issues, as could the pine shavings as bedding. I suppose I could probably use way more herbs to repel mites and lice and stop using the DE. I have echinacea, spearmint, peppermint, oregano and comfrey that I can give them fresh or dried. I’ve been adding handfuls of dried mint to their nest boxes and bedding occasionally, but they only like comfrey fresh not dried. I was actually just thinking about cutting our comfrey and mints again so could throw a bunch to the chickens while im at it. Also was going to get a bunch of tansy to repel mice, ants and hopefully wasps around our property. I considered hanging some around the coop (out of reach of the chickens) to repel mosquitoes and whatnot, but think there could be toxicity issues if the chickens get into it. Plus, maybe even the fumes from the cut tansy would be enough to cause issues, I dont know.

I also have several kinds of medicinal mushrooms I could make tea with for them, and also have alcohol based tinctures, but I dont know what mushrooms are safe for chickens or if alcohol is safe with them at all. So many things that I dont know!

The stool can be "floated" for parasites AND cultured for bacteria. Coccidia will show on a slide.

I agree with removing the DE as it is very much a lung irritant.

Is there any correlation between weather/temperature and the "outbreaks" of mucky bums? Heat stress, cold stress, and high or low humidity can make a health isue they are coping with get rapidly worse, only to improve as the weather does.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:The stool can be "floated" for parasites AND cultured for bacteria. Coccidia will show on a slide.

I agree with removing the DE as it is very much a lung irritant.

Is there any correlation between weather/temperature and the "outbreaks" of mucky bums? Heat stress, cold stress, and high or low humidity can make a health isue they are coping with get rapidly worse, only to improve as the weather does.

Maybe I’ll see if they can culture the sample as well, then we can maximize the amount of information we get from it.

I’ll plan on cleaning the coop, removing all the dust and DE and using more herbs instead of DE in the future. I also am suspicious of the pine shavings as bedding since I’ve read they can cause respiratory issues over time from dust and fumes. They’re on pine shavings all summer and a mix of pine shavings, pine needles and leaves all winter. Either way, it’s dusty.

I haven’t noticed a correlation between weather and the messy bums. The hen was wheezing when it was hot though. I gave oregano oil and the temperature dropped the next day, then she quit wheezing but got the swollen eye/sinus. Theres a few hens that always seem to have the messy bums. We have washed and trimmed them twice this summer and within a few weeks, they’re messy again. Probably should do it again soon. The humidity and heat fluctuate a lot here and maybe that has an effect on them, or that in combination with some internal problems maybe.

Brody Ekberg wrote:I figured the DE could be causing respiratory issues, as could the pine shavings as bedding. I suppose I could probably use way more herbs to repel mites and lice and stop using the DE. I have echinacea, spearmint, peppermint, oregano and comfrey that I can give them fresh or dried. I’ve been adding handfuls of dried mint to their nest boxes and bedding occasionally, but they only like comfrey fresh not dried. I was actually just thinking about cutting our comfrey and mints again so could throw a bunch to the chickens while im at it. Also was going to get a bunch of tansy to repel mice, ants and hopefully wasps around our property. I considered hanging some around the coop (out of reach of the chickens) to repel mosquitoes and whatnot, but think there could be toxicity issues if the chickens get into it. Plus, maybe even the fumes from the cut tansy would be enough to cause issues, I dont know.

I also have several kinds of medicinal mushrooms I could make tea with for them, and also have alcohol based tinctures, but I dont know what mushrooms are safe for chickens or if alcohol is safe with them at all. So many things that I dont know!

Maybe you could try aspen instead of the pine shavings? They're still dusty, but they don't have the crazy volatile oils that the pine does. Supposed to be less irritating, from my understanding. As for mite control, I haven't yet done it myself, as my chickens are still in the brooder at night, but I've heard that limewashing the coop interior can help deter mites, lice and other critters. I would be cautious with the tansy, it's quite strong and definitely could be bad if they got into it. You might be right about the fumes. I would definitely be hesitant to add any potentially irritating herbs to the mix.

I also wonder about the safety of mushrooms for chickens. I've tried to find info and mostly just read that if it's safe for humans, it's okay for them. But obviously, that isn't true for some plants, so it seems a little iffy to assume to be true. I've seen mixed things about alcohol being safe for them too. Like you, I feel there's so many things I don't know! But I suspect lots of others don't know either, since I so often see information that is contradictory, especially when it comes to plants and more natural ways of keeping chickens healthy.

This may have nothing to do with the messy bums, but just a thought. You mentioned you give them yogurt. How much do you give them? From my understanding, too much dairy can cause diarrhea. Maybe some of them are eating more than others? Or could be vent gleet, perhaps? But you're giving them probiotics, so that seems rather unlikely. Again, these are just ideas to explore and guesses at what could be going on. Hopefully you can get some poop tested to get a clearer picture.

Heather Sharpe wrote:

Maybe you could try aspen instead of the pine shavings? They're still dusty, but they don't have the crazy volatile oils that the pine does. Supposed to be less irritating, from my understanding. As for mite control, I haven't yet done it myself, as my chickens are still in the brooder at night, but I've heard that limewashing the coop interior can help deter mites, lice and other critters. I would be cautious with the tansy, it's quite strong and definitely could be bad if they got into it. You might be right about the fumes. I would definitely be hesitant to add any potentially irritating herbs to the mix.

I also wonder about the safety of mushrooms for chickens. I've tried to find info and mostly just read that if it's safe for humans, it's okay for them. But obviously, that isn't true for some plants, so it seems a little iffy to assume to be true. I've seen mixed things about alcohol being safe for them too. Like you, I feel there's so many things I don't know! But I suspect lots of others don't know either, since I so often see information that is contradictory, especially when it comes to plants and more natural ways of keeping chickens healthy.

This may have nothing to do with the messy bums, but just a thought. You mentioned you give them yogurt. How much do you give them? From my understanding, too much dairy can cause diarrhea. Maybe some of them are eating more than others? Or could be vent gleet, perhaps? But you're giving them probiotics, so that seems rather unlikely. Again, these are just ideas to explore and guesses at what could be going on. Hopefully you can get some poop tested to get a clearer picture.

Now that you mention aspen, I’m second guessing what these shavings are. The bag says “premium softwood shavings”... pretty vague. When I hear “softwood” I think evergreens, and I’ve read about “pine shavings” so much that maybe its all an assumption on my part. Aspen is considered a softwood, so maybe calling the company and asking would be wise. Crazy thing is, we’re in Michigan and these shavings are from Montana... we have a local pet bedding producer that uses almost solely aspen and none of it is sold locally. I should inquire with them!

I agree about the tansy. I’ll probably leave that out of the mix for now. Too many variables as it is!

I posted the mushroom question on Facebook and was guided to several Pubmed articles about feeding broiler chickens a variety of different mushrooms “waste”. Some were dehydrated stems, some were colonized substrate, some didn’t specify. Most were oysters. The general consensus seems to be that medicinal mushrooms are good for chickens when replacing 1% of their feed, but when replacing 2% the results were more neutral for some reason. I question the methods of the studies, but the results make me think that it might be safer to add medicinal mushroom tea to their water than to actually feed them the mushrooms themselves. I’ll wait for this issue to clear and then probably start adding mushroom teas to their water on a rotation, similar to the other herbs and whatnot that I give them.

As far as yogurt goes, I think most of the stuff I’ve given them has actually been dairy free (wife has issues with casein) and I only add a couple spoonfuls to their mash when I ferment their feed, so I doubt thats the problem. Vent gleet also seems unlikely because, when we check, their vents seem fine. Nothing nasty leaking out or anything like that. Its just like their bums are so densely feathered (Orpingtons) that if they ever get the runs it makes a mess on the feathers. But only a couple of them seem to get messy regularly...

I dropped a turd off at the vet this morning for a fecal float test and should have results by the end of the week. I’m thinking it’s probably related to dust, diatomaceous earth, or a moldy spot on the grass where some feed spilled. Ill try to clean up the coop and the moldy spot soon and get rid of some of these variables!

Alrighty, I suppose its time for an update!

So, I got the fecal float test results back and they’re negative. She explained that that’s not 100% because sometimes the tests dont show parasites depending on what part of the life cycle they are in at the time of the stool sample. Either way, I doubt it’s parasites anyway.

The hen with the puffy eye/sinus area still looks the same. No worse but no better. She isn’t wheezing though. We have had 2 other hens wheeze a bit as well though. It doesn’t last long, maybe just a half day or a day, but it’s enough to have me suspicious.

So, since this spring, we have had multiple undiagnosed chicken issues that seem to not necessarily be getting resolved and i dont know what, if anything to do. We lost 4 of 6 chicks this spring, have had 2 hens wheezing and one hen with a swollen eye/sinus for weeks. Ive also noticed that even though the rooster has been gone for almost 3 months and their feed is 18% protein, a few of them still haven’t grown back their feathers from where the rooster would tread on them. Also, we’ve been finding a slightly lumpy egg regularly which is new, and even though we have 6 laying hens, we haven’t gotten 6 eggs in a day since spring. We used to get 3-6 eggs daily and now its more like 2-5.

Ive read about various different bacterial infections, fungal infections and deficiencies and some, if not all can have these effects. So, I dont know how to narrow anything down or what to do besides continuing to give medicinal mushroom tea, echinacea tea, oregano oil, ACV and black walnut hull tincture in rotation. I cleaned all the diatomaceous earth from the coop, dusted and changed bedding, so that should all be a non issue now.

I have noticed that some spilled feed molded twice now and within a couple days we had a hen wheezing, so maybe that is the culprit. But aside from cleaning up the feed, what more can be done? Hopefully oregano kills whatever they have going on.

Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

If the hen is stressed out by being put into the crate, cover the crate with a blanket or put it into a dark room. Any bird put into darkness (except a rooster, who will crow during the darkests night) will go to sleep. This will help the bird calm down. There is something that affects poultry's sinuses...I never had it in my flock but know it does exist. Possibly you can search the symptoms and find an answer. Keep the search simple...chicken with symptoms of....fill in the blank.

On a different note, day-old shipped birds will often have pasty butts. I have always treated newly shipped birds by adding organic molasses to their water for the first 24 hours. One teaspoon per quart of water. Always give room temperature or warmish water to day-olds when they first come out of the shipping crate. I dip each one's beak in water to be sure they know where the water is. After the first 24 hours I remove the molasses water and start them on organic ACV, 1 teaspoon per quart.

Shipping is stressful on day-old birds. The shipping containers are often left out in the sun in high temperatures, exposed to extreme cold, put in unpressurized airplane compartments, just to name a few bad things. Chicks that have pasty-butt show stress more than others. They need to be kept very warm (99 degrees at least) and have a quiet place for the first 24 hours after coming out of the shipping container or at the first sign of pasty-butt. Some shippers are better than others. I have had a flock that had many cases of pasty-butt, then a different shipper (hatchery) without one case. I have used a 20 gallon fish tank for these little ones...with a small (40w) bulb in a heat lamp. Isolating them from the rest of the chicks made it easier to keep an eye on them and clean them off when needed. In some cases, there might be 10 or so with pasty-butt in one shipment. Keeping a few chicks  together (even if they aren't affected) keeps the one chick happy and makes putting it back into the general population easier on the chick.

I have never seen a case of pasty-butt when a hen hatches eggs. After two flocks of bought in day-olds, I let the broody hens do the hatching. One year, I had over 60 chicks hatched under broody hens. Not one casualty when I let the hens do the work of hatching. Of course, I had to manage the broody hens and then make sure the momma and chicks were in a safe environment.