Tragedy with my fall chick journey

In the past I have always gotten my new chicks in the spring.  We keep them in a plastic bin with a hardwire top in the house for a couple of weeks, then I would fence off the back of the coop and once the babies are big enough I remove the fence.  I have never had a chick die on me (lots of chickens over the years for a variety of reasons).  This year with Covid, and the stay at home order I didn't get my chicks.  By the time I was ready there  weren't any.  I ordered chicks online in July, but had to wait until the 22 of September for them to be shipped.  I picked them up at the post office Sep 25.  I kept them in a bin in the house, but no heat lamp because it was still very hot.  Just before I went to bed the first night I checked on the chicks and one was laying in the waterer, and all the rest were soaking wet.  The waterer was one size up from the smallest.  It took some talent to drown yourself in that small area.  My daughter thinking it was dead tossed it out of the water in the bin.  It moved a bit. We took a towel and bundled it up.  My daughter held that chick while I took the blow dryer to rest.  Then I dried the drown chick (my daughter named Soup for obvious reasons)  Alive but not very responsive I was sure she would die.  I held her with a towel and kept petting her.  After a while she started making noise, after a while she started moving around. About two hours later she was acting like a normal chick and was put back in the bin.  My daughter washed some rocks and placed in the water tray so the chicks could drink, and not drown.   At about 2 weeks old one of the chicks flew out of the bin when I was changing the water fell about 4 feet to land on a concrete floor then grabbed by the dog. I made the dog drop her and picked her up.  She seemed fine.  I was worried she would die later who knows what could be broken inside.  Her name is now chicken nugget and she is doing well.  At about 2 and a half weeks I make the chicks a temporary coop in the back yard where they would spend there day and back in the bin to spend the night inside. (At this point the bin is to small for my fast growing chicks.  4 nights ago I put them back in the bin but left the bin in the temp coop.
My son and I have been building on an extension to the coop to give everyone more room. The original coop was 5 feet wide by 21 feet long and 7 feet high.  The baby wing is attached to the end and side to make the overall shape an L.  The addition is 7'X6' 7'tall.  The main frame was built.  Tin was attached and sunk into a trench about a food deep, and chicken wire went up from there.  A temp roof and door of chicken wire, and the chicks get a new home.  I put the bin with shredded cardboard on the bottom in so they would have a warm place to sleep.  The next day everyone was healthy and happy.  Today after night two I went to help my son complete the extension and found a dead chick.  Not Soup or Chicken Nugget.  I could see nothing wrong with her.  All the chicks were happy and healthy yesterday, eating, drinking, and playing.  All the chicks but this one seem well today.  There is no indication of how she died.  No blood, no abnormalities, nothing.  The only thing I can think of is she didn't go into the bin and got to cold.  This doesn't seem right to me because I know she could get in and out of the bin.  I checked the weather and it was a low of 45 last night.  I just don't know, it's very upsetting.  The chicks are back in the to small bin in the house for tonight.  Tomorrow I will finish making the door, and attach chicken wire from the roof to the chicken wire that is already there and it will be done.  The chicks will go back out tomorrow. I will turn a heat lamp on at night until they have all there feathers, and hopefully I wont loose any more chicks.    
I have never had to deal with the cold and chicks before.  They are usually full grown by the time it gets cold at night.  I thought they would cuddly together and keep each other warm.  I think it is harder to have and animal die and not know why, because you can't prevent it from happening again.  The next time I have to get chicks I will wait for Spring.  It is so much easier.  Thanks Jen

Sorry about your experience. It is unusually hard to lose an animal like that. It's weird, I can "harvest" an animal as they say and it not bother me, but losing one like that is such a shock. And nothing infuriates me like predation. Sometimes they just die like that. Maybe due to how they are bred, hatched, or raised, or who knows what other reasons there can be. Animals that have many offspring at a time often have relatively high losses.

I'm so sorry!

Trying to keep chicks inside is hard. We raised a chick inside for about a week--maybe 2 weeks?-a few years ago, and the chick soon started making a TON of dust from the bedding. We ended up moving her to the garage and putting hardware cloth on top of the rubbermaid bin she was in--if we didn't, she'd fly out!

Ducklings--even goslings--are a lot easier to keep in a bin in the house. They don't really escape, and they don't kick up dust. They do poop a LOT, but that just means you have to add more bedding throughout the day and change it frequently.

Do you happen to have a garage? We've often kept our ducklings in the garage, where it's a bit warmer than outside, and easier to have a big tub (my husband somehow snagged a giant white crabbing container that's 4x4x3 feet).

I'm so very sorry you lost chicks this year. Losing animals is so hard to go through, and not just for the kids.

Well wish me luck. The chicks are back outside.  The chick wing is close enough to being done they're safe.  I put a heat lamp in the corner.  I have become a total mother hen.  Will they be warm enough, will they be safe?   The directions on the heat lamp bulb said it should be at least 18" from  user, only run for a half hour at a time.  Then I read on the internet how dangerous they are.  So I lifted the lamp up to about 24".  The bottom 24" of the coop is tin and the frame is metal pipe, so it isn't flammable and should be warm.  I ordered a ceramic heat emiter, but it won't get here until 10/29/29.  It is supposed to be safe to run 24/7 if I need it to, and it isn't a light so it will keep them warm but not awake.  So I only have to use the heat lamp a few days.  
Nicole what a wonderful container you have.  I started the chicks in a plastic bin, then found one of those portable baby bed/ play pin thing that was a little larger than the bin.  At 4 weeks old they are just to big for it now (because I mail ordered them I had to buy 15 chicks minimum.). My wonderful husband can't bare to get rid of anything, so I'm embarrassed to say I can barely get inside my garage let alone keep my chicks inside.  Thanks 😊  I just hope I have done enough so they not only survive, but are comfortable through the night.    I will probably go out and check on them before I go to bed.  No more fall chicks for me.  If I need them and can't get them in the spring, I will go with out.  Thanks.

Jen Fulkerson wrote: My wonderful husband can't bare to get rid of anything, so I'm embarrassed to say I can barely get inside my garage let alone keep my chicks inside.  Thanks 😊

I feel your pain! I'd gone and reorganized our garage and made a bunch of space and made a nice work area....only to have my father-in-law give my husband his Lincoln Town Car. And my husband just HAD to store it in our tiny garage. So now I can barely walk in there, let alone store chicks or ducklings, or work with the tools. We currently have our elderly rooster living in a giant rubbermaid in our living room. Ah well!

Though, with 15 chicks, I don't know if our giant bin would have held them for long. I've never had more than 8 baby poultry, and those were ducks! Here's hoping your chicks stay safe! (you could also maybe use an incandescent bulb, which has less fire hazard, but might not be warm enough to compete with the really cold temperatures!) We've never had our heat lamps catch anything on fire, though, so hopefully everyone will stay safe!

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.  This year is just so different for everyone with everything that is going on.

It sounds like you have gotten everything set up so maybe it will be smooth sailing from now on.  

I wish you the best.

I checked on the chicks this morning and every one was alive and well.  I turned the lamp off because it is warm during the day.  Thanks for all your kind thoughts everyone.  I have become quite attached to these chicks. It always makes me smile  when they seem happy to see me.  Jen

When chicks get chilled, even if it is because they were lacking the brains or instinct to go back to the warm place, their immune system and the entire rest of their bodily functions get pulled down. I think their what little brains they have stop functioning too.  So it is very easy for them to die even if they just had to run two feet to get into the warm area.  

When you first got the chicks home, I would have gave them a heated area even if it was very warm out. I would have given them the option to go into a the warming area.  When putting them outside for the first time, They need a small area or they seem to get lost and not always are able to find their spot.  I use a cut in half 275 gallon liquid tote as a brooder about 40 inches by 48 inches.  I also always give them a light for the first couple of nights or a week so they come back to the warm place in the brooder and don't go huddle in a corner and pile up on each other and die.  No light and sometimes they just can't seem to find their way to the warm spot.  When I give the chicks the run of the coop, I will give them a warm spot even if it is summer time. If I am brooding in early spring, fall or winter, I turn my liquid tote brooder up side down and I put a light in it. I use an LED light white. I hang it inside the brooder from some wires sticking through the sides. I lift the sides up about 4 inches with some boards so the chicks can run in and out when they want to.  I also have  warm spot in there for them.  So it is always warmer under the brooder.  I have used this even in January and February here in Central Ohio very successfully.  I sometimes even brood day old chicks in chicken tractors in April with my brooder plates. I cover the ends of the chicken tractor with plastic and since it has a solid roof, the chicks stay warm.

Now for my big suggestion.  Ditch the heat lamp for the warm spot.  Heat lamps are energy hogs usually over 200 watts.  Probably over 5 years ago, I stopped using heat lamps. I bought a brooder plate from Premier 1.  I wasn't sure at the time if I would like it but even the big one which is the one I bought only uses 40 to 60 watts. Darn near no fire hazard.   I know that brooder plates cost more, but I think they work so much better. Mine have legs that you adjust for the height of the chicks. As the chicks get bigger you raise the legs.  If you have the legs adjusted to the correct height, which is just about the height of the chicks back it keeps the chicks from piling on each other.  If you raise cornish rock crosses, this saves a lot of chicks.  I have been using the same brooder plates for over 5 years.  I used to have to buy new heat lamp bulbs at about 10 bucks each every year because the darn things don't last long.  I use so much less electricity with the brooder plates, I know they have paid for themselves easily.  I have three of the ones that can handle 50 chicks each and I have one little one that handles ten chicks. I use the little one in the house in a small tote when I have eggs hatching in my incubators. I raise and sell replacement pullets and roosters for people to butcher.  I have had one of my chicken tractors blown away over a fence with the brooder plate inside.  I had to replace the cord on the brooder plate, but other than that it is still functioning fine. There were no chicks in the chicken tractor at the time. We had 70 mile an hour gusts that day.

I have also started using Oregano Essential Oil in the chick waterer to combat coccidia. IT seems to help a lot.  

I also raise goats. I don't use heat lamps for my kids in the winter. I have heard too many horror stories about the barn burning down. I use heat mats. When it is really cold. The mats lay on the floor and the kids and even the momma goat can lay on them mat without hurting it. I have been using the same heat mats for over 7 years for my goats. The heat mats use about 40 to 60 watts depending on the size of the mat and in the spring, I sometimes use them to help germinate seeds.  The heat mats I buy I got at rural king and they are for dogs to use in the winter in their dog house.  I think you can order them on Amazon.  I don't worry about my goat barn well really the goat hoop house, burning down.  

I really consider the brooder plates and the heating mats as game changers in raising livestock.   I have heard that some people have had their house burn down from heat lamps in the chick brooder. The brooder plates just dont get that hot.  You can safely put your hand on the plate when it is warm.  

Anyhow, goodluck with your chicks and I hope you don't have any more problems.

Bonnie

what is Oregon essential oil?

bruce Fine wrote:what is Oregon essential oil?

bruce, did you mean Bonnie Johnson's comment

Oregano Essential Oil in the chick waterer  

Oregano as in the herb, made into an oil and usually sold in a jar with a dropper, is used as a anti-viral and anti-biotic when taken orally with water. If I feel a sore throat coming on, I will take a drop or two. I'm not *sure* what it does, but in my case it may simply be calling all the local white blood cells and telling them there's a problem, as the stuff tastes truly gross.

That said, I have a friend who's worried about her banty hen. She's tried a number of things, but I don't think she's tried Oil of Oregano so I may suggest it today when I see her.

So far so good.  The heat lamp I have is 125 watts. I also got a ceramic heat emiter like people use for reptiles. It's 100 watts.  I was going to replace the lamp with the emiter,  but it was supposed to be even colder, so I put it about two feet from the lamp so all the chicks can be warm.
I looked into chicken heaters, and the brood warmers.  I just can't afford it right now.  I had the outer part of the heat lamp and got the heat bulb on clearance for .79 cents.  It was 90% off.  I did spend 10.00 on the emiter.  I know it's more expressive to run, but I'm still not working, and have to use what I have.  I turn them on after dark, and off in the morning once it's warmed up.  My coop is mostly metal, and I haven't put the wood chips in yet.  I did put shredded cardboard in the space they sleep just to insulate there feet from the cold ground.  I know it's flammable, but it is in one corner of the coop.  The rest is dirt.  I have the lamp and emiter wired to the rafters, and the cords wired to the coop.  I'm just trying to keep my chicks safe and warm.
So far when I go out in the morning to turn off the lamp and emiter the chicks are doing there chick thing.  
Thanks for all your advice and concern.  Jen

I feel your pain! This is our first time raising chickens. I ordered them online in March, I believe, and the earliest hatch date was July... come July and they pushed it back 3 weeks into mid August! I knew this would present some difficulties compared to having fresh chicks in spring. We kept the brooder in the garage for the first few weeks with a heat lamp when necessary. But with 30 degree temperature fluctuations during a day, we were constantly adjusting it. They just barely got feathered out by the time we started getting cold. They are now roughly 12 weeks old and doing well, even down to 13 degrees now with no added heat. We thought one was dying the first week (named her Struggles). She was pasted up for a few days and that totally set her back from the rest. Got that taken care of and then one was bleeding from the neck. Got that taken care of and then one developed a weird blackish spot on her beak. One thing after another!Even daylight shortening, time changes and weird weather swings (high in the teens with snow one week and 60s the next) are rough on them at an early age. Plus, they will be coming to point of lay around new years, which co
uld be weird timing with winter.

So far, it’s been successful. But I definitely recommend anyone to place orders ridiculously early and to try to avoid raising chicks in fall. Or better yet, find a local breeder/ chicken farmer and avoid the online hatcheries.

Everyone is doing well.  I turn on the heat at night and off once it warms up in the morning.  
Besides the 14 6 week old chicks I have 5 18 month old hens and 1 18 month old rooster (he was suppose to be a hen. Surprise!) in our original coop.  I have what once-up-on-a-time was a horse coral that I have tried, unsuccessfully to make a chicken yard.  The chickens were constantly getting out and reeking havoc in my yard and gardens.  I gave up mid to late summer when I had a lot of melons getting ripe and locked them in the coop.  The coop is 5' by 21' and 7' high.  They adjusted very well.  No more destruction, everyone got along I was getting eggs again.  Happy happy joy joy.  Until a few days ago.  All of a sudden my Americana hen is constantly beating up one of my Salmon faverolle hens.  I don't know why.  My son and I built a wing onto the side of the coop so the chicks and hens/rooster can see each other, but can't interact.  So is it the chicks, all the noise we were making, suddenly board?  I don't know but this very timid hen was spending all her time tucked as tight into the corner, or one of the laying boxes as she could. Except when the Americana was beating her up which I witnessed on several occasions. Since there is no way for me to protect the timid hen  I have been letting her out during the day.  At night she roosts on my garden gate.  I pick her up and put her into the chick wing with the now 6 week old chicks.  I watched for a long time the first two times I did this.  The first night she spent about an hour trying to figure a way out, but now she just goes about her normal chicken business.  The chicks mostly ignore her.  A couple times one of the chicks go up to the hen and peck at her neck, but the hen just turned her head away and the chick went on her way.  The hen doesn't interact with the chicks or bully them.  So far this seems to be OK.  The hen isn't in a tight little ball when I see her now, and is acting like a normal chicken.  The mean hen seems to have no problem with any of the other hens or rooster.  I'm not sure what I will do in the future.  The chick wing is to small to keep the chicks in there indefinitely (7'X6' 7' high), the plan was to open up the chicken wire between the two coops and make it one larger coop once the chicks are full size.  I do have plans to make the fence higher, and cover a few places I know the chickens use as a sort of stepping stool to help them get out.  Maybe if they can have more room the mean chicken will leave the timid one alone.  One thing after another this year.  After 15 years of having chickens you would think I should know what I'm doing.  Oh well it keeps me on my toes.  Thanks everyone and good luck Brody.

I had a hen start picking on another and like you, I let the victim run free.  She got along fine with the chicks.  Once we integrated the herd of 25 chicks with the rest of the flock, we added the victim bird back in.  I guess the break solved matters because the mean hen quit picking at her, BUT it may also have been that she had 25 new targets.  She was being way aggressive with the chicks and ended up in the freezer.

Tina Hillel wrote:

She was being way aggressive with the chicks and ended up in the freezer.

Some breeds are more aggressive than others and also have more tendency to get bored. Some breeds are better suited for some situations just as some plants will be happy in one climate and struggle in another. Despite that generality, you also can get a bird that's just plain mean and the freezer is a good place for it as you don't want to propagate those genes. However, if you think it is just environmental rather than personality, consider selling or giving the bird away to someone who might have a better home for her. I met a lovely hen once who's owner could *not* cope with how often she went broody. I managed to facilitate her going as an exchange to a 3rd farm where a broody hen could better be accommodated. Both people were very satisfied with the exchange!

You are so right Jay! No one wants genes like that to keep in the flock. Whenever I saw her eggs under my broody hen I would take them.

This one was a cranky bird from the beginning and was just getting worse.  She wasn't that great of a layer so it was the final straw.  She only made it to her third year cause I needed a couple more hens to balance numbers for two roosters over last winter.  Her retirement would have been this month but it got moved up to May.  On the other hand, her sister was great and she is still here.

Now that I think about it, like Jen's bird she was an Americana. Half anyway. Other half was Brahma. At least it will make her good sized mean bird for dinner!

The mean chicken also will peck the end of the other chickens eggs.  It's the strangest thing because she doesn't eat it, or even brake it, just one peck on the end of the egg.  I didn't know who was doing it until I caught her the other day. Now that I think about it, I should have guessed because it is never her egg that is pecked.  It makes me very unhappy because at this point we only get 1 to 3 eggs a day.  With this new annoying habit the dogs are happy because I cook those eggs for them so they don't go to waist, but now I have had to buy eggs.  If this continues I will have to do something. Not being raised a farm girl it's hard for me to eat my chickens.  I don't know, time will tell.  Thanks 😊

Jen Fulkerson wrote: Not being raised a farm girl it's hard for me to eat my chickens.  I don't know, time will tell.  Thanks 😊

I've only been doing it this since 2012.  My husband and I have found that the more annoying the bird, the better they taste😀  The first time is the hardest though so I do understand your hesitation with that.

Hope your fall chicks continue to work out well. My first accidental fall batch was only six chicks and it was a pain. You're making it work with a bunch so many kudos to you!

Jen Fulkerson wrote:

Not being raised a farm girl it's hard for me to eat my chickens.

I'm very careful not to name birds that are going to end up being "dinner". It's much harder with a hen but usually by the time they're done, I don't mind just planting her under a tree or shrub, as I usually have young roosters or drakes to eat instead. However, you mention dogs, so one possible solution is to skin the chicken and turn it into dog food if you don't want to eat it yourself. If she's pecking eggs and picking on other birds, the risk is high that some bird is going to decide to peck with her and then you may have a much larger problem. Some people don't have a problem eating an animal that they've formed a bond with, but many of us certainly couldn't do that as newby farmers, so cut yourself some slack and look for other solutions. I don't know if putting the trouble-maker in "time out" any time you spot her being naughty would help (dog crate with water would do) or crating her separately at night and not letting her out until you've collected the rest of the eggs? You may need to try to convince her that "you're the top rooster" and she needs to get in line. These are just ideas you can consider based on your time and equipment. Hopefully you'll find a solution you're comfortable with.

Tina Hillel wrote:I had a hen start picking on another and like you, I let the victim run free.  She got along fine with the chicks.  Once we integrated the herd of 25 chicks with the rest of the flock, we added the victim bird back in.  I guess the break solved matters because the mean hen quit picking at her, BUT it may also have been that she had 25 new targets.  She was being way aggressive with the chicks and ended up in the freezer.

Sometimes; they get it in their heads that they can bully any chicken thats timid, and then transfer that chicken bully attitude to chicks. I have seen it happen. My parents would  try separation for about 2 weeks, usually putting the mean hen by herself in a fenced off area.  If that didn't teach her a lesson, in the stewpot she went.

Its also a trait that can be passed down; my grandmother did an experiment once and kept notes; she took an aggressive hen, separated her into a second coop they had; let the rooster visit part of the day until she got broody after laying a batch of fertile eggs, and let  the aggressive hen raise them.  The aggressive hen was not aggressive towards her own chicks.  out of 14 eggs, there were 10 that hatched; 2 were roosters, the rest were hens. The chicks were introduced to other chicks and young birds that were fledging at about a week after they hatched out; and the chicks from the aggressive hen, were aggressive right away to the other chicks and the younger fledging birds, pecking at their eyes, backs,  butts, fluff, emerging feathers; she watched them carefully and when they would become too aggressive, she would separate  them again.

When they were old enough to not need  their mother; the aggressive hen became Sunday dinner.

My grandmother tried integrating those chicks all the way through to adult hood , and was unsuccessful with them not starting to bully other chickens within a few days of being  with the others. The LONGEST she was able to keep everyone in the same  coop was 2 weeks; then one of the  aggressive hens brood, now almost a year old, attacked  a  non-aggressive but defensive rooster and 3 hens who were out doing chicken-y stuff in the back yard.  WIth that, my Grandmother decided that , after a year of trying to  have the aggressive chicks and chickens integrated into the rest of the flock, that  they would not ever be non-aggressive, and those chickens ended up in the freezer for  moe SUnday Dinners.  

My grandmother had already made Sunday Dinners from the 2 roosters  from the  aggressive hens brood when they were old enough, as they were starting to not only  be aggressive to the other chicks, they were trying to kill each other.

Me, amatuer observationist I am, I think the aggressive habit become ingrained int he primal part of the chickens brain, like an addictive habit, and they  NEED to be aggressive to  get the  dopamine(?)  ( not sure if chickens even HAVE dopamine!) so whatever the  'feel good ' chemical hit they associate with aggressive behavior is released, and like any addict, they need more and more of the 'feel good' chickeny hit to feel ;good', so they get more and more aggressive...

Not being raised a farm girl it's hard for me to eat my chickens.  I don't know, time will tell.  Thanks 😊

If that hen were mine, she would be the winner winner of being Sunday's Chicken Dinner. A hen that pecks the eggs of other chickens , ruining eggs, is not a hen you need. SHe will just keep on escalating her behavior.