• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Timothy Norton
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Tereza Okava
  • AndrĂ©s Bernal
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • M Ljin
  • Matt McSpadden

rainwater collection for drinking in the NE

 
Posts: 3
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
hi, longtime lurker first time poster- thanks for bearing with me! lets get to the point:

here in the catskills we get plenty of rain and all manners of accidental catchment seem to work great. but most of the properties around use wells to supply their water. not sure why...

our water supply is currently an old hand dug well, which has e coli, so we have to blast it with a UV filter and then for good measure we put that water into the berkey for drinking and cooking.

we'd like to collect rainwater for the berkeys for drinking and cooking instead, because who wants to depend on 200 year old well with poop water- we'll happily keep using it for laundry and dishes until we can drill a well, but that's not an item in our short term plans.  

our roof is old, our gutters are old, none of it looks good for rainwater catchment so I'm considering building a roof over our back deck which will eventually house a rudimentary little outdoor kitchen. but what kind of tank would be best suited to something like that??

ruled out galvanized tanks because it's wet here and rust could quickly become an issue. considering pillow tanks or a hdpe tank that we could probably cover a bit with masonry to protect from degradation. factors we deal with are ice, snow, wind, heat, humidity, lots of insect life, and many critters. one potential downside to a pillow s is that underneath decks are a clubhouse for every animal, including our own poultry, so I'd worry about it getting damaged.

any ideas? maybe someone in my region has dabbled in this area? thanks-






A48F953B-BA9D-4C4F-8F3E-6C273EF1C0AC.jpeg
[Thumbnail for A48F953B-BA9D-4C4F-8F3E-6C273EF1C0AC.jpeg]
 
steward
Posts: 17437
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4458
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Our Rainwater collection system uses a black tank purchased at Tractor Supply.

We do not use it for drinking water as for drinking we would need to treat it much like you are suggesting.  We have a good well for drinking.

Our metal roof is coated and is good for water catchment.

Here is a book by Brad Lancaster that will help:

https://permies.com/wiki/51855/Rainwater-Harvesting-Drylands-Brad-Lancaster

And this:

https://permies.com/t/36676/Brad-Lancaster-Waste-Transform-waste



 
pollinator
Posts: 5670
Location: Bendigo , Australia
512
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What area are you located in? How much land are we talking about? Any images of the buildings?
My signature has a link on Capturing rainwater for domestic use.
Galvanised tanks will last many years if the foundations are good. They are made from special steel etc.
Old roofing etc is not an issue.
Bladder tanks are better for tight awkward locations.

Wells were used traditionally, but today there are many issues with quality and quantity.
They are costly to install, run and maintain compared with rainfall catchment.
I catch and hold about 250,000L of rainwater in 190,000L and 20,000L tanks.

The big tanks allow the water to settle and self clean.
Rarely is there any issues with rainwater untreated if you have the large volume tanks. In Australia I have used rainwater for 30 yeras and have never treated any.

The poly tanks do not need protection from the sun.
FREEZING normally will not be a problem except with your pipes.
Depending where you are, thats why I asked the frost can be severe and different treatments are needed to prevent the pipes freezing.

 
lali foster
Posts: 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
thanks for the information so far- as I mentioned, we're in the catskill mountains (zone 5, gets below freezing in the winter) so I would likely need to run a pipe into the house that's protected from freezing.
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5670
Location: Bendigo , Australia
512
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am in Australia, where are the catskill mountains
 
Posts: 2
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I see quite a few comments about concerns regarding drinking rain water.  Now I may keel over tomorrow but I/we have been drinking our rain water over 7 years.  My system is simple, galvalume roof,  gutter screens, first flush, screens going into tanks, whole house filter 10ucron, finally a UV filter.  That's it.  

My big problem with my system happened last year with that  Texas arctic blast and no power for days.  For a while I had 5 x 2500 gallon tanks that were mostly frozen.  By some miracle nothing broke.  The solution for that problem is not obvious.  We live on a rough terrain solid limestone ground so I can't bury the tanks below the frost line.  The only solution may be to build a large metal building over the tanks.  I guess that would give me more catchment surface meaning capturing more water and a desire for more storage.

It has been a very positive experience over all but I have come to dread winter time.

I hope it works out for you.  You will love it when you get it working.
 
gardener
Posts: 2563
Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5
890
trees food preservation solar greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The Catskills are in New York State, and have a good long winter with temperatures typically going down to -20C or colder. It's a climate with precipitation or dry weather at all times of year, no specific rainy or dry season. Plenty of precipitation.
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5670
Location: Bendigo , Australia
512
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Diyer, if you insulate the shed and fit a small heater in it you will be surprised. There is a topic somewhere about it here.
At -20C do tanks etc freeze?
 
diyer Kubos
Posts: 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The problem is that there is no shed now and the ground the tanks sit on does  not lend itself  to building a shed over them.     5 tanks would require a large shed cover at least   20ft x 20  not to mention insulation and the heating.  Think about what it would be like to build a shed over portions of the Uluru to get  an idea of  how uneven the ground is.   That's an  exaggeration but you get the idea.  Living on a not  level   rocky  lot has lots of limitations.

From a $ perspective the solution will likely be to drill a  well and have a small tank in the pump house which is insulated and does have a small heater and just continue to take my chances with tanks freezing that are outdoors  during rare winter events.

Having said all that, last year was I hope a once in a lifetime event.  Most of my neighbors wells that had covers also froze.  Lack of electricity at that time was obviously the big killer (sadly lack of power  did kill some folks due to extreme cold).  Texas is not a state that handles cold weather very well.

 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5670
Location: Bendigo , Australia
512
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ok, insulate wrap the tanks
 
lali foster
Posts: 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the insight so far, one question that keeps cropping up is- what if I put off insulating and only use rainwater in fair seasons, and keep using well water through winter? Are there ways to keep the system from getting damaged by ice?
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5670
Location: Bendigo , Australia
512
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am still learning about frost and rainfall collection.
I think for the cost of a well, you may get a good insulated shed built.
You may not have to have all the tanks inside?
Do you have room in a basement?
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5670
Location: Bendigo , Australia
512
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have been thinking, again!
I believe the wind can induce a 'chill factor' and cause the effective temperature to drop.
In Diers case, would building a stone wall facing the direction of the prevailing cold winds help?
I am aware in Northern England it works for sheep, and I think you mentioned having lots of stone.

I recently taught a few people in Australia how to do dry stonewalling and the result was great, it only took time and some dollars for fuel.
We did use a small tractor to collect stones from 300M away, it was easier than using a wheelbarrow.
I am self taught, by reading and watching videos from Youtube.

As for having a well and a tank system, that may be doubling your costs for no reason.
What are the circumstances about water in winter please?
 
Posts: 1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So for those with desires to catch rain water, we catch ours off a 30x50 metal barn it goes into a barrel full of river rock with top third charcoal. From there it goes into a 1000 gal food grade water container (make sure its sturdy). The container is buried in the ground with about a foot of dirt over it. It's our drinking /we will survive water.  We bring it in to our house with a stainless steel bucket and run through our Berkey.  We also have 5 different rocks scrubbed and in our Berkey bottom for extra minerals. We have been using this system for 22 years, we live in Missouri  and have only ever had a paper thin sheet of ice. On it.  Hope this helps someone.   (We also have an over flow pipe to switch to ground gutter if 1000 gal container is full)
 
Police line, do not cross. Well, this tiny ad can go through:
Learn Permaculture through a little hard work
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic