replacing an alternator

The car: Year
1996 Saab 900 SE
Body Style 5-door
Engine B204L 4-inline, Turbo - Petrol
5-speed manual / Front wheel drive

It was designed by airplane engineers, so everything is different than you may expect. Like needing an 8mm hex attachment for a ratchet to remove the bolts in the alternator. Huh?

My problem right now is that the bolts have been removed. But the thing is not coming off, as it has um, fused, rusted, something, to the bracket.

Does anyone have any tips?

Here is the SAAB instructions for the job.
This diagram makes it clearer.

We fully removed the catalytic converter to get our hands up in there.

Here is a guy that maybe didn't need to pull out the wheel to do the job. So we didn't. Is there something obvious in there that we can not see? Maybe he did take it off and didn't mention it. He rarely mentions the size of the tools he is using, which slowed us way down.

There is no visible rust. It just won't move. As if the bolts have not been removed.

I think on that model there is a sliding bushing that moves when you tighten up one of the mounting bolts. If you have the new one look at the double eared mounting bolt position the rearward ear has a split bushing that might be gripping bracketry. In this picture the bottom mounting holes. You can't move that bushing with your fingers it slides when you tighten the bottom bolt. That alternator is in such a tight hole it is not a pleasant job. Jiggle wiggle it.

We removed the tire. No great revelations. Easier access to bolts we'd already taken out. Sigh.

In the video above, he'd had to loosen the bolt on the alternator bracket to get it out. Working on that now. Gotta get the car back on the ramps. Can't go yanking on stuff with just a jack under the car.

Hmm... My new one does not have that. The mounting bracket bolts that I loosened are the ones toward the pulley, on each bracket. Do I need to find another bolt on the bottom, one and loosen it too?

I'm pretty sure a 1996 has three mounting bolts a 1997 has two.

Okay I'm off to find a picture...

Does this look like the right thing? 4 bolts, only one bracket?

It's hard to tell without a good look at what is going on, but if you have the wiring and bolts removed from the alternator, and the mounting bracket(s) firmly attached to the engine, then it generally takes some 900 pound gorilla strength, or leverage of comparable force, to get one out when they are mounted like that. I would try to get at the area where the upper bolt goes through and use a flat head screwdriver or other prying tool between the alternator and bracket to try to pry it outward. If it moves a bit and then seems to be wedged in tighter, you will probably have to hit it back into position and try again. Most likely several times over, as the thin passivation layer (white powdery aluminum oxide, or 'rust') will bind up the already tight friction fit. Knocking back will allow some of the oxide to fall out (and into your face if you are working from below) and you can get a little more and more freedom of movement until it is free. From there you can grab the whole alternator and pivot the remaining side stuck in the mount, possibly with more prying, until it is free.

Often times when you go to put the new one in it simply will not fit. I use very fine sandpaper to knock off any remaining excess oxide inside the mounting area. Usually when you try to place the new one in, one side will drop down and the other catches in the sharp 90 degree edge of the bracket. I find exactly where it is hitting and take a file to it, just enough to make a tiny ramp so when I set it in place I can slam it and it pops into place. Alternators with mounts like that always seem to be much more difficult to remove and install compared to some other mount designs.

While I'm confident I could take it out the bottom without removing the wheel or wheel well like the guy in the video, I've also been working on cars for decades and have tons of tools that most people, even most mechanics, don' have on hand. You may need to see if you can pull back or remove the wheel well liner to get access to insert something to pry with, and to better see what you are doing. I would tell you to turn or remove the wheel for more room, but that's not an option if you are using ramps.

Here are pictures of a different project on a 1995 900. Please check out pictures #28 and #29 that show the alternator in two angles. I can't tell how many bolts there are. We don't know how loose to do the bracket screws. The alternator has not budged.

Here is the other guy's project.

Can anyone take a guess at the answers?

So what I find is that in a 96 with a 2.3 it definitely has three bolts a 2.0 could have either two or three depending on amperage.

which I won't know until I pull it out?

Robert, did you look at the pics of the other guy's project above to see if you can see the bolt quantity and PLACEMENT on HIS car?

If so, could you highlight them?

Thank you everyone for your time.

Some random guy answering the phone at a mechanic shop for euro cars, suggested to remove the bracket with the alternator. His specific to SAAB guy hasn't done this recently, don't remember.

Looking on Rock Auto, they show 90 and 120 amp alternators, but they both have two bolts. The 90 looks like all of the other stuff you have shown where the alternator fits inside the tangs of the engine bracket, and the optional 120 has pairs of tangs that fit over the engine mounting points. But they are still both held on by two bolts from what I have seen. Given that it is already a bad part, as long as the two long bolts are removed I wouldn't be afraid to pry or hit it with impunity.

You may need to use a socket extension or some other rod and a hammer to jar it loose. As long as everything else is bolted down tight, and the two long bolts are removed, it will relent given enough force. You might want to use a marker or something to draw a line across the alternator and bracket, as it may take several sharp swings just to get it to move 1/100th of an inch and seem like it isn't moving. The line will tell you if any progress is being made. I just went through this with my friend and his starter last week. It looked like it didn't move after several hits, appeared to move with the next hit and popped free with the final swing of the hammer.

I don't think the alternator is going to fit out the bottom with the bracket attached. You might be able to completely undo the bracket that holds one side and then swing it back and forth and use it as leverage to loosen the other side, but you would either have to bolt it back down to separate the bracket (been forced to do things this way a few times), or get the car on jack stands so you can remove the wheel and take the alternator and bracket out together out the wheel well, assuming here is room to do that.

I got my camera up in there. Take a peek. I think it is a 14v?
That bolt at the bottom that I am stalking... Is that to the bracket?

The video is still formatting. Ooops. Hold on a minute.

https://youtube.com/shorts/uUlAOJuxR_M

Success?

It says the video is private. On the last picture set you posted, pic 30 shows the front of the engine. The upper long bolt is behind the belt tensioner, and the other long bolt on the bottom goes through an angle bracket which bolts to the block. You could remove that angle bracket so the bottom is free and only the top will be wedged in place at that point.

For anyone who may be questioning the alternator bolts location, they are not in the alternator...

We'll try that Daniel.

I think i got it changed to public now?

Yup, that says 45-90A so it's the 90 amp version, and those look like the bolts. Those are the only two, so like I mentioned above, you can mark a line across the alternator and bracket to track your progress as you try to hit and pry that thing out. Good luck!

We wiggled and jiggled it and the alternator is out!!!

Thank you!!!

Tomorrow for the install. I'm bushed.

Install was troublesome. The old pulley had to be moved to the new alternator. It decided be stubborn. We had to use part of a pulley puller threaded onto a claw extractor, pulling thingy. Both tools sets were borrowed from the O Reilly store.

Top and bottom brackets had to be re loosened for the new altenator to fit in.

The pulley belt was monstrous to get in the correct position. But we got it done.

And what's more, I successfully made a 8 mile round trip test drive. Yay!

We need to find you something easier to work on, or not have to work on.

Yes!

My father was a great fan of Saabs and quit messing with them after the demise of the 2 stroke version.  I am pleased that you finally got the alternator replaced, but this is not the first time Saab has run into problems with corrosion.  The 99 series had a horrific water pump situation due to that and a friend of mine, being a Saab "specialist", cursed them roundly as in a high percentage of cases the water pump literally had to be chiseled/ground out to be replaced.  Again, corrosion.  They were generally good vehicles, but as with any brand often had some peculiarities.

Enjoy the new ride as you can..

Thanks, E.L.

So we had a few happy happy days. Then the car gave me trouble starting yesterday. Sigh.

I ran by a part store so they could check things out for me. The guy said that the alternator was not charging the battery. WHAT?

This morning we charged the battery. Then I crawled back under there. The nut on the small wire to the alternator was able to be undone with my fingers. Ahem. Yes, it was I who tried to tighten it with needlenose pliers instead of the damn 8mm socket I could not find. But I have one today! Done.

We took the car back to the auto part store and it seems to be working fine. Maybe. The clerk likes to see 15v. My car only did 13.9v while running.

Does anyone know where to find what voltage a SAAB 900 is supposed to produce?

For example, I found this... for a SAAB 9000. That is the wrong model dammit!

The voltages should be something like this:

Car off, key in STOP:
battery 12V
battery terminals 12V
cigarette lighter 12V

key to I
battery 11V
battery terminals 11V
cigarette lighter 11V

If you manage to start the engine and measure again, it should be:

battery 14V
battery terminals 14V
cigarette lighter 14V
(post 11 here..)

13.9 should be about fine. The small wire was probably the field wire that excites the alternator telling it to charge.

Thanks Robert. You are awesome!

MOST vehicles pound a charge of 14 volts, give or take. For example, a GM vehicle will not barely turn over if it does not have 14.2 volts running to the starter.  Not always true, but pretty much common.  I remember Saabs are not quite so picky, BUT,  avail yourself of a volt/ohm meter from what..harbor freight or some such?  Sometimes free if you buy whatever, but get one-It works on all vehicles and house wiring and is a damned handy thing to have around.

I drive an Alfetta GTV6, and it will roll over at 13 volts, no problem.  Depends on the whole universe, I suppose...

E.L. Dunn wrote:MOST vehicles pound a charge of 14 volts, give or take. For example, a GM vehicle will not barely turn over if it does not have 14.2 volts running to the starter.  Not always true, but pretty much common.  I remember Saabs are not quite so picky, BUT,  avail yourself of a volt/ohm meter from what..harbor freight or some such?  Sometimes free if you buy whatever, but get one-It works on all vehicles and house wiring and is a damned handy thing to have around.

I drive an Alfetta GTV6, and it will roll over at 13 volts, no problem.  Depends on the whole universe, I suppose...

When you hear a vehicle in a parking lot doing that "guh,,guh..guh bahzing" thing as it starts, the timing is way far off.   I hear this far more than is necessary, but people are damned dumb overall..  

I own three vehicles, not by desire, but more by happenstance... a 1964 Ford f250, the Alfetta GTV6, and  a Lotus super 7.  The Alfa is a joy, the Lotus is supreme...

A fully charged 12 volt automotive battery right out the door has a charge of 12.65. If you are noticing a spike immediately after start it is the alternator reacting to demand on the battery starting the vehicle. As the vehicles battery accepts the juice from the alternator you will notice the voltage dropping to that 13.7 or there abouts. If the vehicle isn't running there is no way to blast a sarter with over 12.65 volts. That charge of over 12 volts while the vehicle runs keeps the battery at full charge while the additional voltage directed to the battery goes to those items that are running. Electric demands for the vehicle comes from the battery the alternator keeping the battery full so to speak. Turn your headlights or heater on and you will see an increase on your amp guage. A true idea of battery health and charge is better obseved with a voltmeter. I can't think of any modern internal combustion vehicle that comes from the factory with a volt meter over an amp guage. immediately shutting off a vehicle you might notice voltage at the battery at over the 12.65 but it will fall to that 12.65.

We do have a multimeter. I haven't deciphered how to set the dials to know what I am reading. Hence the trip to the part store.

Look at the scale on the multimeter-find the one that says 20 volts DC-which will accommodate anything LESS than that.  Black probe goes to ground-battery or chassis-battery negative  is likely better, and red goes to the big, usually rubber covered post on the alternator.  You are not looking for anything more than 20 volts DC, which will cover virtually any vehicle on this side of the planet.  Do not overthink this.

Look:  the alternator confuses a lot of folks, but here it is:  The big "post" is the charging port.  The rest are grounds, so ignore them.  Be gentle about probing around-12volts will hit you harder than you might think

Alternators can be confusing. The location of your Saabs alternator makes it difficult to probe about. Yes the big post is the battery post, taking the charge to the battery. There is one wire the field wire that will be hot (not a ground), when the voltage regulator senses the battery needs a little juice. When you mentioned that you had one small wire loose and were getting no charge I am assuming that that loose wire was the field wire. The field wire excites the field allowing the alternator to pump juice to the battery.
With your multi meter and access to the back of the alternator you can check quite a bit. with the vehicle off you can check battery voltage by touching the large post.
With the car running you can check if the alternator is charging by noting the voltage is in that sweet spot of 13.6-13.9.
If it is not charging at that level by checking the field wire you can see of the alternator is getting a signal to charge. If that field wire is not hot you then need to check wiring and voltage regulator.
Not always easy but by jumping a hot lead to the field wire you can check function of the alternator, bypassing wiring and the voltage regulator.
One test that was common pre-computer was removing a cable from the battery to see if the alternator woud keep the car runng "DON'T DO THAT" it can screw up things on some newer vehicles.
Don't be afraid of 12volt automotive on the charging side you might see a spark but other than surprising you it won't hurt you. Just be careful probing and cognizant of what is positive and what is a ground.