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Hackberry or Catalpa?

 
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Not 100% sure. We have tons of Catalpa, but no Hackberries. I planted several this spring & never noticed anything come up. Leaves seem kind of slender for Catalpa, but I am no expert & would like a second opinion.
20220907_144652.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20220907_144652.jpg]
 
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To me, that is nowhere close to hackberry.

Not toothed and too large.


source

Though who am I, just some one who likes to ID plants and trees, etc. ...
 
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I'm pretty sure it's Catalpa.
 
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Looks more like catalpa than hackberry to me as well. Hackberry has alternately arranged leaves, whereas the tree pictured appears to have oppositely arranged ones, which is in line with catalpa. Plus as Anne mentioned, the leaves aren't toothed.

Interesting you don't have hackberries there. Where I live, you can't stop them from growing. Very abundant. I wonder why they aren't so present where you are.
 
D Tucholske
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Heather Sharpe wrote: Interesting you don't have hackberries there. Where I live, you can't stop them from growing. Very abundant. I wonder why they aren't so present where you are.



People killed them all a long time ago & I guess they never managed to make their way back here, yet. It's kind of funny, because I saw an extremely accurate range map of where they grow & where the trees are reported goes in a huge circle around northeast Ohio & western PA.
 
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Those of you who have hackberries, are the leaves rough to the touch?
 
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William Bronson wrote:Those of you who have hackberries, are the leaves rough to the touch?



Not that I recall. I believe they are tougher and leatherier than catalpa leaves. Those do not look like the hackberry leaves where I live.
 
Heather Sharpe
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D Tucholske wrote:People killed them all a long time ago & I guess they never managed to make their way back here, yet. It's kind of funny, because I saw an extremely accurate range map of where they grow & where the trees are reported goes in a huge circle around northeast Ohio & western PA.

How strange. I'm surprised they were able, not to mentioned confused as to why. They're wonderful trees. Good on you for working to bring them back!

William Bronson wrote:Those of you who have hackberries, are the leaves rough to the touch?

The ones where I live are quite rough to the touch. My partner has become mildly obsessed with figuring out how to eat them as greens, since they're very abundant. But the rough texture is a little unpleasant on the mouth. Pressure cooking reduces it. Apparently, they're extremely nutritious. Really a rather pleasant flavor to me.
 
William Bronson
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Wow,  thank you!
I think I have a few of these trees, but I never knew they had even marginally edible leaves.
Dehydration can fix unpleasant tastes and textures in many leaves.
 
Heather Sharpe
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William Bronson wrote:Wow,  thank you!
I think I have a few of these trees, but I never knew they had even marginally edible leaves.
Dehydration can fix unpleasant tastes and textures in many leaves.

Me either, until recently. The entire fruit and seed is edible too. Lots of protein. The fruity part is very thin, but quite tasty. I guess you can grind the entire seed, fruit and all to use for food. Haven't experimented with that yet, so we shall see. If nothing else, I bet they make good chicken food. Good idea with the dehydrating! Will have to try that!

Here's a great article about hackberry as a valuable tree for humans and wildlife. http://www.twisted-tree.net/hackberry
He mentions in the article that seed predators can be a challenge when trying to grow them. I wonder if that's why you haven't found any of the ones you planted, D Tucholske? Maybe they need some protection?
 
D Tucholske
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Yeah, I might end up just having to get some live plants shipped in, if I can.

I suppose the reason why is because this was one of the first areas in the Ohio River Vally to be colonized by whites, all the way back, before the Revolutionary War. Most people who came here were trying to establish massive farms, so they clear-cut everything, usually in a highly destructive manner. Some old history of Ohio regarding how the first settlers conquered this land has a lot of info about how the government mandated landowners to have rivers & streams deliberately modified to be straighter to make it easier for loggers to transport logs to lumber mills & how farmers would girdle all the trees, wait for them to die, them set the whole woodland on fire as a method of removal.
 
William Bronson
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Here are two photos from my church sisters yard.
The leaves seem to be alike to one another,  but the sickly looking ones are from a mature tree.
The photo showing bark is from the mature tree.
Are these Hackberry trees?
IMG_20220910_173941.jpg
Leaves from a seedling and a 20 foot tall tree
Leaves from a seedling and a 20 foot tall tree
IMG_20220910_173934.jpg
Bark of the 20 foot tree
Bark of the 20 foot tree
 
Heather Sharpe
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William Bronson wrote:Here are two photos from my church sisters yard.
The leaves seem to be alike to one another,  but the sickly looking ones are from a mature tree.
The photo showing bark is from the mature tree.
Are these Hackberry trees?


Yep, that's them. The bark is wild. The ones here are looking a little worse for wear at this point in the year too. The younger leaves definitely seem preferable for eating. I'm probably going to coppice or pollard the ones I have that are in places they can't grow to full size and try using those for greens. They tend to like showing up along fences, under power lines, etc. Wherever the birds perch. Regardless how the greens experiment goes, it lets the trees continue to exist in places they otherwise couldn't and create food and habitat for wildlife.
 
William Bronson
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Thank you for confirming this ID!
I will keep an eye out for them, and transplant the seedlings to my biomass bed.
I think their berries are stripped by wildlife around here, they seem very sparse.
 
William Bronson
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Yesterday I was at  my yarden, a second lot I have for growing things, and noticed that one of the big trees on the eastern property line is a hackberry.
I have a smaller one on the southern property line, and many seedlings in between.

I might pollard the one on the south and I'm seriously considering a "treehouse" next to the eastern one.
 
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