• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ransom
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • Jay Angler
stewards:
  • Timothy Norton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Tereza Okava
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • M Ljin
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Matt McSpadden
  • thomas rubino

West Coast Madrone for dyeing - Arbutus menziesii

 
master steward
Posts: 14904
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
9237
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Has anyone used West Coast Arbutus for dying? I think the same plant is called Madrone in the US in places. Arbutus menziesii

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbutus_menziesii

I have a piece of white wool fabric I'd like to use, but white will get messy too fast in the planned application. A friend suggested Arbutus would make a nice rich brown colour, but doesn't seem to know more, like which part of the plant to use, how to prepare it, etc.

I'm a total amateur at dying fabric, although I at least know that some dyes are better for animal fibres. However, I was sort of hoping to use a local plant, if that's possible.
 
Jay Angler
master steward
Posts: 14904
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
9237
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Doesn't anyone know anyone who would know?
 
steward & author
Posts: 45291
Location: Left Coast Canada
17895
10
art trees books chicken cooking fiber arts
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I use arbutus bark for dyeing.  The tree sheds naturally (some First nations called it 'crazy woman tree' because she takes off her clothes year 'round) and I always have an extra pocket or two for gathering the bark when I'm in the woodlot.

There's a bag in the kitchen - next to the one for onion skins - where I keep the bark until I'm ready to use it.  I keep it out of the light and in a paper bag so it can breathe and dry.  

Pre step: weigh fibre/yarn/cloth while dry.

Step one: prep the fabric.
Commercially woven fabric will have some extra grease or sizing on it so that it could go through the machines easier.  This will act as a resist - make the dye not want to grab onto the fibres.  

I like to scour or wash (scour involves very specific temperatures - wash is washing).  Water so hot that 2 seconds is the maximum I can put my hand in it without damage.  Should be steaming.  Real soap if you have it (fat and lye soap - from mutton tallow is traditional).  I use orvas paste which I get from the farm shop.  You can also buy this from most dye supply shops for a crazy price, but given that I only need one to three teaspoons per fleece, the gallon jug from the feed shop lasts me several years.  I use this because it claims to be biodegradable and my plants confirm it doesn't hurt them, they use it to wash lambs, and it is one of the few cleaning agents that doesn't hurt my skin.  

But also, use what you got.  Dish detergent I'm told gives very good results.  Clothing detergent is probably the least beneficial as it often has additives to make the clothing appear more clean but can act as a resist for the dye.  

dissolve soap or detergent in the extremely hot water.  Press the cloth into the water.  Reposition after a min or two to make sure the soap is in the cloth.  Repeat as needed.  Remove cloth from soapy water before water cools (to prevent stuff from reaffixing to the fibres).

Rinse in warm to hot water.  

Note the low amount of agitation.  (for those of you new to wool, agitation, plus moisture and/or temperature change can cause fulling (felting) which shrinks and thickens the cloth - not always desirable)

Optional step: mordant.
Alum is popular.  Again, I buy mine from the agricultural supply as I'm not dyeing to reproduce a specific colour so I don't need the most pure (and expensive) alum.

Heat water to a scant boil.  Add 5-10% WOF (dry Weight Of the Fibre/yarn/fabric) of alum.  Stir and add cloth.  Bring to just below a boil and then turn off heat and leave for overnight to cool.

I don't find arbutus needs a mordant, but it does increase lightfastness.

Step... what was I on?  Dye day
If memory serves, the recommended WOF for arbutus bark is 50%.  

WOF is confusing.  How to explain?  
Recipes in natural dyeing are based on the weight of the fibre/yarn/cloth to be dyed.  The dry weight of the fibre is considered 100% and everything else is in relationship to that.  Mordant is usually 2-10%.  Dyestuff can be anywhere from 5% to 600%.  Depending on stuff.  

I tend to ignore the WOF thing when it comes to dye stuff.  I have my amount of dyestuff (which is roughly the size of my dye pot) and the amount of stuff to dye (about twice what one should put in a dye pot).  There isn't much room for negotiation.  Most dyers can't be near me when I dye because I do things so wrong.  But it works for me, so I'm happy.

Okay...um... pot full of bark.  Pour some boiling water from the kettle on it to speed things up.  I bring it to a boil and simmer for maybe an hour.  If the water looks dark, I leave the bark in the water overnight to cool.

Remember to soak cloth.

Next day, strain the bark (keep the bark, you might be able to make another dye bath from that).  Oh, and keep the water.

Put the cloth in the dye bath and top up with water if needed.  Bring to below a boil and then lower to just below a simmer for about an hour.  Leave in the dye bath to cool.  

Have a look at the cloth.  Is it dark enough?  
If yes, then wash it really really well with soap and water (like step one)
If no, then is there colour still in the water?
Yes?  reheat cloth in dye bath.
No? we need to find more colour.  Try making a dye bath out of the bark to see if there could be more colour extracted.  

If you don't have enough dye stuff now, you can dry the cloth until you have enough bark to do another dip.  


Hope that makes sense.  Feel free to ask questions.  
 
r ransom
steward & author
Posts: 45291
Location: Left Coast Canada
17895
10
art trees books chicken cooking fiber arts
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is madder (a root) not the bark, but you can also use this method for dyeing with arbutus.  



With madder, the temperature changes which dye chemicals are released from the roots, so we can get a lot of different colours by playing with temperature.  
 
pollinator
Posts: 393
Location: Central TX
165
5
homeschooling kids forest garden foraging books medical herbs building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I’ve been eyeing the madrone trees here (central Texas) for trying out dying as well. But I have never dyed a thing in my life :)

As mentioned before, the peeling bark is red and will be found red on the ground.

Here we have a not so politically correct nickname for the madrone, “naked Indian”.

I like to think a glance of the tree in the woods must have really spooked the settlers to have acquired such a name.
 
pollinator
Posts: 125
Location: Willamette Valley, OR
46
5
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here is a quick description of a successful experiment using madrone:

https://jenjoycedesign.com/2020/07/25/a-natural-dye-experiment-part-2/

Thinks to note:
The dye materials must be heated to extract color. A week-long soak in the sun is one way to get things started, but jus5busung the stove is fine. Don’t boil! A gentle simmer. Typically for at least an hour, though I unusually go longer.
Once it’sremoved from heat, let it sit for awhile, at least overnight. You will get stronger color the longer it soaks.

Soak your clean wool thoroughly (minimum 1/2 hour) before adding it to the cooled dye pot (after the dye material has been strained out). Don’t add room temperature wool to a hot dye pot - you risk felting/fulling* the wool.

Wool deteriorates in high ph. Most wool dyeing involves adding vinegar (the kind in kitchen cupboards) or citric acid crystals
Kool-aid makes a great fuss free dye for wool because it already contains citric acid.

Wool will also deteriorate if your dye pot is too hot. Heat is good, up to a limit. Heat the pot slowly, and try not to let it get above a slow simmer.  If it boils you will still get dyed wool, but it will most likely lose softness, become a little crunchy, and wear out faster.

Simmer for an hour or so, then let it cool before removing the fiber. In fact, for many natural dyes, the longer you leave the fiber in the dye water, the more dye that gets taken up.

There is great variation in color- and light-fastness when dyeing with natural dyes, depending on the plants used.  It helps to wash natural dyed items gently in cool water, and hang to dry away from sunlight.

 
Trust God, but always tether your camel... to this tiny ad.
permaculture thorns, A Book About Trying to Build Permaculture Community - draft eBook
https://permies.com/wiki/123760/permaculture-thorns-Book-Build-Permaculture
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic