Bad tasting homemade cheese

I have so many different recipes for cheese, none of which taste very good. What could I possibly be doing wrong? Is it because I live at 8700 feet above sea level?

Thea, cheese flavor comes from many variables, as I am sure you are finding out.

I have kept milk goats at 8000+ feet elevation, down to 3000 feet.  I had no reason to believe elevation contributed to poor quality cheese.  Let me tell you what I have been told, and have observed.

Genetics:  some people like a very goaty flavor to the goat cheese.  Plenty of others do not.  The Toggenberg breed is known for making cheese that satisfies the desire for goatiness.  There may b e another breed or two that were bred for that quality in cheese from their milk.  Many breeds have sweet and creamy kmilk .

Some breeds have a lot of butterfat in their milk, Nigerians and Nubians I believe.

Beyond breed, individual does have different flavors/ qualities of milk.  It runs in families just like human facial features and eye color.

Beyond that, the milk qualities change over the lactation cycle.  Kate gives a great description of that.  I hope you have bought or are buying her book!

Beyond the goat’s breed, personal flavor of milk, and her place in her lactation cycle her milk will change flavors depending on what she eats and how long ago she ate it.  Sweet new pasture grass makes sweet mild milk and cheese. ( I make a chevre that is so creamy and mild I add vanilla and a touch of honey, and serve it as a dessert or dessert topping as people use ice cream or whipped cream.)

The cheeses from mild milk require aging and or additives (garlic, chilies, herbs) to develop a savory flavor, or cultures as in bleu cheese.

Funny tasting water can also make bad cheese.

Alfalfa, clover, fresh pasture mild feed yield sweet milk.  Twig browse from bitter shrubs carries the flavors of the plants, and their cycle of growth.  Tender new growth, woody twigs from late summer, or a drought year.  The plants flavor the milk.

For example, there’s the cheese I made from the milk the day my girls ate a quarter acre of day lilies….  onion scented milk made onion flavored chevre!  Luckily, the share holders loved it,  wished for more.  Unluckily though they had occasional access to the day lilies, they never made onion milk again.

Friends had a milk goat in poison oak country.  Every spring when the poison oak leafed out, the goats ate it, and everyone in the family got a very mild poison oak rash, then were immune to it for the rest of the season.

Also, there might be a health condition fouling the milk, like mastitis. There are likely others.  I have assumed you’re fastidious in the milking process…. If not, switch to scrupulous cleanliness!  

My guess is that your situation may be due to genetics and feed.  Have you ever smelled or tasted the milk your girls are producing?  Regarding the feed, have you tasted their feed?  Or scrunched and smelled it?

In your situation, if I wanted to check if it’s the feed, I would get a few bales of high quality alfalfa or grass alfalfa hay.  Green in color, smelling fresh and clean, no hint of moldy smell…. smelling like the best summer day in all eternity .  A fragrance you could breathe in forever.

Transition them from whatever they are on as appropriate to prevent digestive problems, microbiome problems.  (check with your vet or your cheese and goat mentor on this if you’re not experienced or need support or reassurance). Keep them on it several days, then taste their milk.  If the milk is good, then it’s the feed that accounts for the undesirable cheese.  Because if the milk is good the cheese will be good.

If the milk is good and the cheese ISN’T, I am guessing the foul taste in the cheese is from the culture you are using, or there’s an unfortunate strain of bacteria in at least one goat’s milk that’s the culprit.

There are beneficial bacteria in the goat’s udder.  The milk comes out with beneficial bacteria.  The bacteria inoculate the future cheese.

Personally, I don’t pasteurize the milk before making cheese (sshh!  don’t tell the USDA or the FDA!😉). But if it is the case that one goat is contributing an unwanted bacterium, then it would be a reason for considering pasteurization.  I would probably try to identify the goat and replace her….. selling her to someone who pasteurizes….

Good luck!  Keep us posted!  I’m forgetting what thread we are in.  Maybe this is a topic for its own thread.  Or maybe there’s already a thread on this!

There are so many knowledgeable people on permies I’m sure others will be along soon to contribute, and divert us as appropriate.

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Thea, cheese flavor comes from many variables, as I am sure you are finding out.

I have kept milk goats at 8000+ feet elevation, down to 3000 feet.  I had no reason to believe elevation contributed to poor quality cheese.  Let me tell you what I have been told, and have observed.

Genetics:  some people like a very goaty flavor to the goat cheese.  Plenty of others do not.  The Toggenberg breed is known for making cheese that satisfies the desire for goatiness.  There may b e another breed or two that were bred for that quality in cheese from their milk.  Many breeds have sweet and creamy kmilk .

Some breeds have a lot of butterfat in their milk, Nigerians and Nubians I believe.

Beyond breed, individual does have different flavors/ qualities of milk.  It runs in families just like human facial features and eye color.

Beyond that, the milk qualities change over the lactation cycle.  Kate gives a great description of that.  I hope you have bought or are buying her book!

Beyond the goat’s breed, personal flavor of milk, and her place in her lactation cycle her milk will change flavors depending on what she eats and how long ago she ate it.  Sweet new pasture grass makes sweet mild milk and cheese. ( I make a chevre that is so creamy and mild I add vanilla and a touch of honey, and serve it as a dessert or dessert topping as people use ice cream or whipped cream.)

The cheeses from mild milk require aging and or additives (garlic, chilies, herbs) to develop a savory flavor, or cultures as in bleu cheese.

Funny tasting water can also make bad cheese.

Alfalfa, clover, fresh pasture mild feed yield sweet milk.  Twig browse from bitter shrubs carries the flavors of the plants, and their cycle of growth.  Tender new growth, woody twigs from late summer, or a drought year.  The plants flavor the milk.

For example, there’s the cheese I made from the milk the day my girls ate a quarter acre of day lilies….  onion scented milk made onion flavored chevre!  Luckily, the share holders loved it,  wished for more.  Unluckily though they had occasional access to the day lilies, they never made onion milk again.

Friends had a milk goat in poison oak country.  Every spring when the poison oak leafed out, the goats ate it, and everyone in the family got a very mild poison oak rash, then were immune to it for the rest of the season.

Also, there might be a health condition fouling the milk, like mastitis. There are likely others.  I have assumed you’re fastidious in the milking process…. If not, switch to scrupulous cleanliness!  

My guess is that your situation may be due to genetics and feed.  Have you ever smelled or tasted the milk your girls are producing?  Regarding the feed, have you tasted their feed?  Or scrunched and smelled it?

In your situation, if I wanted to check if it’s the feed, I would get a few bales of high quality alfalfa or grass alfalfa hay.  Green in color, smelling fresh and clean, no hint of moldy smell…. smelling like the best summer day in all eternity .  A fragrance you could breathe in forever.

Transition them from whatever they are on as appropriate to prevent digestive problems, microbiome problems.  (check with your vet or your cheese and goat mentor on this if you’re not experienced or need support or reassurance). Keep them on it several days, then taste their milk.  If the milk is good, then it’s the feed that accounts for the undesirable cheese.  Because if the milk is good the cheese will be good.

If the milk is good and the cheese ISN’T, I am guessing the foul taste in the cheese is from the culture you are using, or there’s an unfortunate strain of bacteria in at least one goat’s milk that’s the culprit.

There are beneficial bacteria in the goat’s udder.  The milk comes out with beneficial bacteria.  The bacteria inoculate the future cheese.

Personally, I don’t pasteurize the milk before making cheese (sshh!  don’t tell the USDA or the FDA!😉). But if it is the case that one goat is contributing an unwanted bacterium, then it would be a reason for considering pasteurization.  I would probably try to identify the goat and replace her….. selling her to someone who pasteurizes….

Good luck!  Keep us posted!  I’m forgetting what thread we are in.  Maybe this is a topic for its own thread.  Or maybe there’s already a thread on this!

There are so many knowledgeable people on permies I’m sure others will be along soon to contribute, and divert us as appropriate.

Hello. I have Nigerian Dwarves. They are fed on premium alfalfa. Could the rennet I use be the problem?

Yes it could.  I use walcoren.  It is calf rennet

I am pretty sure Kate discusses various types of rennet as her book, and the effect on cheese.

Things I would look into for possible causes of bad-tasting cheese:

Whether the animal has a slight problem with the udder - sometimes there can be subtle problems that are not full-blown mastitis, but will still change the taste of the milk and the cheese.

Freshness of the milk - if you make cheese the same day that you milk, the flavour will be better.

Milk handling practises - I know some cheesemakers put a nut milk bag or some cheesecloth over the top of the milking bucket to catch any stray hairs and other unwanted stuff that might fall in. I don't do this, I just milk directly into the bucket, and then strain it as I pour it into jars while the goat is still on the stand.

Particular animals - some animals, even within the same breed, can have 'goatier' tasting milk than others. You could experiment with putting different milks into different bottles and tasting - you may find that you have one goat that is making stronger-flavoured milk than others.

What they are eating will make a big difference.

Making sure your goats have access to minerals, especially dolomite, will help with milk taste.

Seasonality - milk will taste "goatier" at some times of year and less goaty in others.

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Yes it could.  I use walcoren.  It is calf rennet

I am pretty sure Kate discusses various types of rennet as her book, and the effect on cheese.

When I don't have homemade rennet, I use microbial rennet, as we can't get calf rennet in Australia at the moment. Microbial rennet as a reputation for tasting bad, but I've found that it actually doesn't when it's used in the correct amounts - too much rennet can lead to bad tastes.

Another thing that might impact cheese tastes - too vigorously stirring - this can oxidise some of the fats and bring out off tastes. Stir as gently as possible.

Kate Downham wrote:Another thing that might impact cheese tastes - too vigorously stirring - this can oxidise some of the fats and bring out off tastes. Stir as gently as possible.

Remarkable!  I didn’t realize this!

How much I learn from you Kate!

Dolomite? I well see what the percentage is on that, in the bag, and see if I can bump it up a bit. I've not tried making cheese yet, with my goats' milk, because there is a tiny hint of bitterness on the back of the tongue. It's just enough to put me off from anything but yogurt & soap, so far.  Something about the tartness of the yogurt seems to counteract it. But, I'm switching up my feed, on the stanchion, this year, to alfalfa pellets, instead of the ' non-gmo lactating goat' feed, to see if that helps, too. I hope that fixes it, because after that, I'm out of ideas. I keep every step in the process super clean and cold, even pre-chilling everything. The bucks get moved to the other end of the farm, as far away as I can get them, a month or so befor freshening time, and don't come back until breeding time, again, and my does are on the best hay we can find. While I'm milking, they're not out on pasture, because it's impossible to control - or even know everything they eat. I learned that as a kid, when our milk cow found a patch of wild onions... her milk wasn't good for anything but onion bread, for almost three weeks.

Carla, you might get some good cheeses despite the hint of bitterness.  Chevre with herbs and or garlic with some good sea salt would likely camouflage the bitterness, or some chilies, smoked salt, smoked paprika are great options too.

Or queso fresco with herbs …. Toss the curds with your herb blend before you press.

A spicy Indian sauce will also cover maybe even compliment the bitterness if you made panir.

Oh, and one more idea.  There’s a pressed cheese that doesn’t melt.  People even grill it.  If you made that with your slightly bitter milk you could marinate and grill it and put whatever sauces you like on it.  

I can understand not wanting to go through the aging process if you doubt the quality of the cheese, but these ideas are all from fresh cheese.

They're great ideas, Thekla! Thank you! I'm fist going to shoot for no bitter back bites, but if that doesn't work, I might try some of your ideas.  

Kate Downham wrote:

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Yes it could.  I use walcoren.  It is calf rennet

I am pretty sure Kate discusses various types of rennet as her book, and the effect on cheese.

When I don't have homemade rennet, I use microbial rennet, as we can't get calf rennet in Australia at the moment. Microbial rennet as a reputation for tasting bad, but I've found that it actually doesn't when it's used in the correct amounts - too much rennet can lead to bad tastes.

That’s it! Too much microbial rennet! It isn’t that the milk was “goaty”, it tasted bad as a cheese. I’m now convinced that I need this book!

You won’t regret it!  It’s a great book, I learn from Kate things I didn’t know I didn’t know!

Thea Morales wrote:I have so many different recipes for cheese, none of which taste very good. What could I possibly be doing wrong? Is it because I live at 8700 feet above sea level?

Thank you, everyone, for your help and ideas. My cheese was so bad that the dogs wouldn’t touch it (that’s a first). I’m going to try some of these ideas after cutting down on the amount of microbial rennet I’m using.

I have acquaintances that raise goats.  They claim having a buck in the same vicinity of the does causes the milk to taste bad.  Other than for breeding and nursing bucklings they keep them in separate pastures that don't even share a fence line.

J Hillman wrote:I have acquaintances that raise goats.  They claim having a buck in the same vicinity of the does causes the milk to taste bad.  Other than for breeding and nursing bucklings they keep them in separate pastures that don't even share a fence line.

I can definitely vouch for this.

A couple more things I thought of when offline:

Too much culture, or bad culture - powdered cultures are very concentrated, if too much is used then it may taste bad, or it may be a bad batch to begin with. I love using homemade kefir as a culture, but it needs to be treated well to make the best cheese - I culture a cup of it every day for drinking, which gives me the option of making cheese from fresh kefir every day, and it works really well when the grains are rinsed and it's fed every day, but some people don't feed their kefir as much, or don't rinse the grains before feeding, and this can cause off flavours.

Contamination - have your cheeses had holes forming in them during culturing or aging? Some of the kinds of bacteria that cause these holes can make the cheese taste bad, some of these are not so bad, and some are ones that we encourage in some cheeses.

What I would do as a test:
• Sterilise all the milking gear (bucket, strainer, cloth, jars) with boiling water to make sure there's no contamination during milking. I give detailed instructions for this in the book. Also make sure to squirt the first couple of squirts from each teat onto the ground rather than including that with the milk.
• Make cheese within a couple of hours of milking, making sure to use the right amounts of culture and rennet - if you're making cheese during a time of year when the milk is quite watery, use a bit less rennet and culture. If you need to delay cheesemaking - chill the milk as quickly as possible to as low a temperature as possible.
•Chèvre can be a good test for coliform contamination - if you get gassy bubbles in the curds, or even if you notice that the curd is floating rather than sinking in the whey at the end of the long culturing time, this can mean there was a contamination issue.
•Make some cheeses without cultures, such as paneer, whole milk ricotta, halloumi, and fast mozzarella - do these taste bad? If not, it could be an issue with culture (but as all of these are heated, it could also be a contamination issue)
•Whatever cheese you make, treat it gently during stirring, and try to keep to the times and temperatures listed in the recipe (although I think physical cues for readiness are more important than exact timing - in my book I show how to test the curds to see if they're ready to drain).