gift
How To Preserve Eggs by Leigh Tate
will be released to subscribers in: soon!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Timothy Norton
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Tereza Okava
  • AndrĂ©s Bernal
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • M Ljin
  • Matt McSpadden

SEPPtember to Remember

 
gardener
Posts: 476
Location: Southern Manitoba...bald(ish) prairie, zone 3ish
226
2
transportation hugelkultur monies forest garden urban books food preservation cooking writing woodworking
  • Likes 13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So it's only taken me a month since getting home to choose and edit photos and finally sit down to type what's been bouncing around in my head.

My name was drawn from the Low Tech Labs kickstarter for a week at Allerton Abbey...a +1 was added, but the dates that Allerton would be available for us didn't work, so we finally "settled" on Cooper Cabin the week of September 23...and we went for just under a week...with about a 17 hour drive to and from Wheaton Labs, if we set to arrive Sunday and depart Saturday, She Who Must Be Obeyed only needed to take a week off work.  Since she's my sugar momma, I'm content she didn't book extra time off.

Anyway, this thread will describe our adventures, some comedy, some photos, and some insights we came away with from the experience.

We were quite excited for this adventure, but also a bit uncertain.  The context of Wheaton Labs - in mountainous rocky terrain with lots of coniferous trees couldn't be much different from our Manitoba acreage - nearly flat, black soil, bald prairie except for trees that have been planted by humans.  If it weren't for the raised driveway and house being built up higher, we'd have almost no slope to speak of on our 7+ acre property.  So while I was looking forward to the adventure, I honestly didn't know how much we could apply back home.

I thought we were starting our trip well when I awoke around 5:00 a.m. to begin our journey.  Then, the next time I looked at the clock it was just after 7:00...sigh...two hours lost.  After getting underway, we'd driven a bit over an hour when I realized we didn't have our passports nor US cash...so we turned around...2.5 hours lost.  Needless to say, while the rest of the day's drive was uneventful, we were way behind our intended schedule.  It was after 11:00 p.m. when we got to my brother's place in Medicine Hat for the night.  At least we got to spend some time with them before calling it a night - he was called into work before we got up in the morning.  We went to Mass, then had brunch with my sister-in-law, their eldest son and family and got to meet their second child born earlier this year.  Of course, being with family and getting caught up, we didn't get moving quite as early as hoped.  Our initial plan had actually been to cross into the US on Saturday when all the crossings are open, but when my sister-in-law suggested we stay with them and cross at Coutts, AB (which is open Sundays), we took her up on the offer.  I'm not sure whether I'd call that a mistake or not, but when we pulled up to US Customs, we think there were about 18 ahead of us (which was somewhat amusing as the road was pretty much empty) with one lane open so it took us about 50 minutes to make the crossing.  

From there, we were Missoula-bound, although I was beginning to stress about time.  Since we were limited in what we could bring across the border for food, we stopped at the Good Food Store in Missoula.  She Who Must Be Obeyed noted that she wished we had one of those at home...they'd get all our grocery money.  It really is quite nice to have a store where everything is organic and you don't feel limited for variety.  After stocking up, and getting a couple slices of pizza (made in-store), we were heading out on the last leg of our journey into the dark.  

We arrived at base camp (the directions given were good), but seeing as we arrived after dark and several hours after intended, we weren't sure where to go to find our bunks.  Attempting to phone the High Commander didn't work for whatever reason (I should really reach out to my phone provider...), but a text elicited a response.  Rather than heading up to Cooper for the night, Stephen set us up with a bunk at Fisher Price for the first night.  He's a wise young fella.  We met Boot Chris and Ringer Jennifer before turning in for the night.

In the morning, we met the giant hobbit himself.  Paul introduced himself and when I responded with "Your Grace", he exclaimed "You pronounced it right!"  We had a laugh, so I'd hoped we were off to a good start for the week.

After breakfast and the morning meeting, HC Stephen got Boots Ben and Chris started with their morning tasks and then proceeded to show us, along with Jennifer, Cooper Cabin and a bit of a tour of the Labs.  Spending time here has me with a lot of bits and pieces of the infrastructure at Wheaton Labs, but actually being able to see the site in person, and the various parts of infrastructure, how they work, and their relative locations really helped me understand WL better.  Of course, She Who Must Be Obeyed has only heard about some of these things from me, and listened to some of the podcasts on the drive down, so she was less prejudiced about the site and was just taking it all in.  Back at Base Camp for lunch and the afternoon, HC Stephen continued showing us around some.  The solar dehydrators fascinated us - since we have been dehydrating more food over the past couple of years, seeing a couple versions in person was extremely valuable.

For most of the week, since we were a relatively small group of humans on site, we pitched in with the Boots.  Among other things (some of which are documented in Stephen's BEL log - starting around page 209), we harvested from the GAMCOD hugel and weighed the produce, we gathered mulch and applied it, watered hugels, dehydrated food, worked on the fence for the Bark Park (we are dog people so this was rewarding...our standard poodle Phoenix approves), planted sunchokes, tied down the yurt walls, harassed Stephen and Paul, and probably a variety of other things.

On our last afternoon, we spent time with Boot Chris in WL's first attempt at making pitch glue - see this thread for description and photos.

Late Friday afternoon, when I was putting away tools,  Ringer Jennifer was excited (quite likely too strong a word) to see me in the workshop as she hoped I could be of assistance.  A big part of what she'd been working on with Boot Ben for the week was getting things sorted out at the pump house.  In various discussions, she'd learned I have a background in electrical engineering, so she thought I'd be able to do some soldering.  It had been a long time since I'd done any, but the basics don't change...as we were preparing to get this dealt with, HC Stephen came through announcing it was quitting time...he may or may not have been threatened with a hot soldering iron as while he's in charge of the Boots, the Ringer and a SEPPer weren't entirely under his control, especially since the SEPPer was leaving the next morning and the Ringer was hoping to get this next step done.  In the time available, I was only able to impart a small bit of wisdom to Boot Ben - don't let out the magic smoke.  Anyway, we got the soldering done and applied the shrink tubing over the junction.  I only hope I did a sufficient job.  

We did come away with some physical stuff - I bought a bunch of DVDs, permaculture playing cards,  and a dozen Better World books from Paul.  It was amusing the first night away She Who Must Be Obeyed started reading the book and she noted that she could hear it in Paul's voice.  I think Paul's co-author may just have been there to clean up the language  Actually, while I'd known he was Canadian, I didn't realize he was in our area - our acreage is about halfway between him and our home in Winnipeg.

I have too many photos to attach to one post, so the ones here are more about some of the buildings / infrastructure.  I'll post a reply with photos of a more scenic nature.

For much of the drive home, we didn't have any entertainment going...we were effectively debriefing our time at the Lab.  Ultimately, we learned, we laughed, we lost (at games night Thursday after supper).  While the context of Wheaton Labs is very different from our prairie permaculture projects, we were able to take away a lot of principles and rethink how we want to do things.  Paul had suggested privacy berms could be of value - while I don't wholeheartedly embrace the base camp berms that you need climbing gear (Boot Chris and I used hori hori knives as pitons to plant sunchokes) for, we did agree that smaller berms around a portion of the perimeter of our property would be a valid way to prevent overspray from the industrial agriculture field around our property.  She Who Must Be Obeyed thought that it would be good to set up some small scale purpose built solar systems.  We could set one up to pump water from the existing dugout to water our copse and the 2025 GAMCOD hugel project (see thread here).  On another portion of the property, near our annual gardens, she'd like to see us dig a pond (I can see Paul's face cheering for earthworks) and set up another small solar pump project to lift water from that to support the gardens.  Digging a pond will yield some clay which could be used for cob and/or for berms at the agricultural spray sector.  Since we have some animal pressure, we'd like to install a fence around the garden space.  Since we don't have junk poles in abundance, we would have to set up a deer fence with metal fencing, but would like to set up gravel socks for the posts.  For relatively low cost, we can get cordwood in 8' lengths which could be the posts for this fence.  Since our return, I have purchased plans for solar dehydrators.  We will likely build a passive one.  The rocket-assist is very valuable late in the season when nights get cooler, but since we don't live on site, it would be harder to fire that up every evening.  An idea bouncing around my brain would be a skiddable structure that would effectively be a portable prep station.  Ideally, we'd have some water storage, possibly a rocket hot water tank to heat it, a laundry tub or two for washing / prepping vegetables after harvest, a counter for cutting / chopping / prep as needed, and possibly solar dehydrator as part of the same structure so we can harvest, clean, prep, and get into the dehydrator in as little time as possible.  We've always had the idea of an outdoor kitchen near our gardens with some sort of outdoor oven...with clay dug from the pond, perhaps cob can work.  I have a source for free chimney brick as well.  As the pond progresses, and the willows that are part of our existing copse (planted, but very young) grow, I'd like to create some living structures.  She Who Must Be Obeyed likes the idea of a gazebo...near the pond where there is moisture, a hexagonal or octagonal living willow gazebo is the vision now.  

I'm sure I'm missing some stuff, but I think that's most of it.  It's incredible to me how I moved from uncertainty over the value of the trip owing to the very different context to being able to apply concepts we saw modified to suit our context.  Based on our time at Wheaton Labs, I'd highly recommend spending some time there as a SEPPer or Boot to advance your permaculture thinking and skills.
20240923DSC_0239AllertonAbbey.jpg
Allerton Abbey
Allerton Abbey
20240923DSC_0242AllertonAbbey.jpg
A closer view of the front of Allerton Abbey
A closer view of the front of Allerton Abbey
20240923DSC_0243GAMCOD_hugel.jpg
Stephen and the Boot's GAMCOD hugel
Stephen and the Boot's GAMCOD hugel
20240923DSC_0244AllertonGreenhouse.jpg
Passive greenhouse at Allerton Abbey
Passive greenhouse at Allerton Abbey
20240923DSC_0251Yurt.jpg
High Commander Stephen showing us the yurt
High Commander Stephen showing us the yurt
20240923DSC_0255SolarDehydrators.jpg
HC Stephen showing us the solar dehydrators - vanilla and rocket-assist
HC Stephen showing us the solar dehydrators - vanilla and rocket-assist
20240923DSC_0257SolarDehydrators.jpg
More dehydrator...
More dehydrator...
20240923DSC_0258SolarDehydrators.jpg
But wait, there's more...
But wait, there's more...
20240923DSC_0261RocketAssistDehydrator.jpg
Peering into the rocket assist SD
Peering into the rocket assist SD
20240923DSC_0263RocketHWT.jpg
Rockety hot water tank
Rockety hot water tank
20240923DSC_0270MoonGate.jpg
Moon gate - this really is quite attractive
Moon gate - this really is quite attractive
20240923DSC_0277CooperCabin.jpg
Home away from home - Cooper Cabin
Home away from home - Cooper Cabin
20240923DSC_0278CooperCabin.jpg
More Cooper - I saw no barrels though
More Cooper - I saw no barrels though
20240923DSC_0280CooperCabin.jpg
Yet another view of Cooper
Yet another view of Cooper
20240925DSC_0292RootCellar.jpg
Sepp Holzer style root cellar build in progress
Sepp Holzer style root cellar build in progress
20240927DSC_0310SunchokeHarvest.jpg
Sunchoke harvest - one plant
Sunchoke harvest - one plant
20240927DSC_0311VoltswagonMove.jpg
Move of the Voltswagon
Move of the Voltswagon
20240927DSC_0314Yurt.jpg
Yurt exterior
Yurt exterior
20240927DSC_0315Yurt.jpg
Yurt walls tied down
Yurt walls tied down
 
Derek Thille
gardener
Posts: 476
Location: Southern Manitoba...bald(ish) prairie, zone 3ish
226
2
transportation hugelkultur monies forest garden urban books food preservation cooking writing woodworking
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here are some more scenic photos from our time at Wheaton Labs.  It truly is an incredible part of the world and quite lovely to visit.

On site, we saw turkeys, bald eagles, and another raptor (presumably an osprey).  We saw plenty of evidence of deer and elk and I hate to admit I also saw mouse (I really don't appreciate them near my calories).

If things survive, perhaps someone will be able to discern my initials in sunchokes planted at the caldera...I left my mark but in time it will just be a patch of lovely sunchoke plants.

On our drive to and from, we saw pronghorn, whitetail deer, mule deer, fox, and turkeys.  We also stopped at a scenic lookout on the Missouri River on our way home.  

Happily, our return border crossing was more pleasant...no line and we were through in no more than five minutes.
20240926DSC_0298Caldera.jpg
View from the caldera
View from the caldera
20240926DSC_0302Caldera.jpg
Another view from the caldera
Another view from the caldera
20240926DSC_0306CalderaTurkeys.jpg
Turkeys visited us while planting sunchokes at the caldera
Turkeys visited us while planting sunchokes at the caldera
20240927DSC_0334Turkeys.jpg
Paul's favourite birds
Paul's favourite birds
20240927DSC_0354Turkey.jpg
Supper, or scenery?
Supper, or scenery?
20240928DSC_0362MistyValleyCooperRoof.jpg
Mist as seen from the roof of Cooper Cabin
Mist as seen from the roof of Cooper Cabin
20240928DSC_0364CooperSunrise.jpg
Sunrise on departure day from Cooper Cabin
Sunrise on departure day from Cooper Cabin
20240928DSC_0369MistDriveDown.jpg
Mist in the distance on our final descent from the Lab to Base Camp
Mist in the distance on our final descent from the Lab to Base Camp
 
Derek Thille
gardener
Posts: 476
Location: Southern Manitoba...bald(ish) prairie, zone 3ish
226
2
transportation hugelkultur monies forest garden urban books food preservation cooking writing woodworking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A few more thoughts.

While the Base Camp now has unlimited water according to Paul, there were still signs up about water use.  This has helped me to be more circumspect on arriving home about conserving our water use.  I have also eliminated shampoo, although occasionally the old habit creeps back in before I realize what I'm doing.

I really appreciate how Ringer Jennifer noted that I may have unique skills that could advance what she was working on.  It was rewarding to feel wanted that way and to spend a bit of extra time to help out.

I'm sure there are more things that will come to me in due course (or She Who Must Be Obeyed may remind me).
 
Derek Thille
gardener
Posts: 476
Location: Southern Manitoba...bald(ish) prairie, zone 3ish
226
2
transportation hugelkultur monies forest garden urban books food preservation cooking writing woodworking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
On the Thursday evening, after she and I had stood side by side watering the ground (a first for us, thanks to P-Chutes), we spent some time looking up gazing at the stars.  It was incredible and a sad reminder of just how much light pollution we have in the city.  These days on the morning poodle walk I can recognize the belt of Orion, but there are so few stars that can be seen.  On the other hand, in the country without a bunch of extra lighting, there are so many stars, that one has difficulty identifying some of the constellations.  

It's another plus for the beauty of nature that can be appreciated at Wheaton Labs and a shaking head moment considering what we are doing to ourselves in cities.
 
Posts: 596
190
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Derek, just a brief note to tell you how much I enjoy your posts.  Please, as you have time to do so, keep us informed as to what and how you are  doing.

Oh, I remember another "she who must be obeyed" from an old BBC show, I think it was called "Rumpole of Bailey Street". I could be wrong on the name, it was a long time ago, the late 70's or early 80's as best as I can recall.

Thanks again for the great posts!

Peace
 
Derek Thille
gardener
Posts: 476
Location: Southern Manitoba...bald(ish) prairie, zone 3ish
226
2
transportation hugelkultur monies forest garden urban books food preservation cooking writing woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks Deane.  I think it was called "Rumpole of the Bailey", but I can't say I recall ever watching it.  Being from the colonies, there was some occasional BBC programming that made it onto the CBC.  

We are coming into the "slow season"...we've had above average temperatures thus far this fall overall (I think September may have set an all time warm record for here).  That said, I've seen snow stay starting in September and I've seen a brown Christmas here, so who knows how much we'll manage to accomplish before spring.  Going down this road of permaculture has made me appreciate (?) patience.  Whenever we make a change, it's a season or two before we can see a pattern of the impacts.  At least in some respects, it forces a slowing down of mental processes.

One thing I do have in mind is to edit the video done for my PDC (slightly) and share it here on Permies, then share how things have evolved in only 1.5 years.
 
What are you doing? You are supposed to be reading this tiny ad!
Learn Permaculture through a little hard work
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic