Framed: Stephen's Scenic Sh*tter Surprise

Hey fellows,

it's The Concierge of Crap here, who just spent two weeks on willow feeders with her fabulous Poo Crew (Woo-Hoo!!!).

That is to say, I was an instructor at the 2024 PTJ, and our focus was shifted from building something new to the smelly smelly poo of the extant willow feeders (Willow Wonka and Willow Banks at Basecamp, and the Chateau (Sh*tto) de Poo and the Cooper Pooper at the Lab), which we tried to improve over these two weeks, learning of the choices made by previous builders, and how that had affected the user experience over time. We also made some modifications, especially week one, when the outdoor temperatures were lower.

Before that, way back in 2023, I apparently led a coup (of the non-violent variety), which resulted in the revamp of the Third Space Sauna area, a group effort of magnificent magnitude. T'was fun. So fun, in fact, that this year, we decided that just doing the PTJ was for amateurs - we needed a side project, and of course, a worthy cause to bring the forces for good together.

Enter, Stephen, the personification of our Worthy Cause.


Now some of you know that Stephen's just successfully completed the Boot program, and has chosen his acre up on the Lab. He's only the third person to do so, after Unfindable Fred and Des the Dapper, Des who btw helped out with this surprise a whole heck of a bunch too.
Long story short, we all love Stephen, and could think of no better way to show it than to build him the Stephen's Scenic Sh*tter Surprise, emphasis on the surprise part.
How to you keep a roughly 7'x7' shed and the building of it a surprise from the High Commander Super Dad (Dad for short) who is constantly roaming the land, making sure everyone's okay and staying out of trouble?
Well, it seems that keeping him in the dark was the toughest of tasks, except for the great efforts of last Thursday night's epic build, led by Mike and Rio, while many others sang and/or tended to the fire.

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The little push that started this off was the pressing need for a willow feeder on Stephen's side of the Lab.
That, and a low whisper, whispered into only two ears, from which word spread and the PTJ attendees decided to pool together to buy the lumber for the new willow feeder. Thanks, Kelsey and Brian, for leading this charge, without you, none of this would have happened!
Everyone wanted to join in, either with funding for fuel, fasteners and lumber, or in the build itself.

First, we needed the materials. Suzanne, my constant savior, kept me together while we went to Gary and Becky's place, Heritage Timber, east of Missoula. They're originally from upstate New York, but came out here in the 90's, and have also helped start Home ReSource in Missoula.
Heritage Timber disassembles buildings that are to be torn down, then they de-nail the lumber and sell it on to people who want quality and to lower their environmental impact by reusing resources that would otherwise end up in landfills. They have got metal roofing, doors, 2x4s, beautiful vertical grain flooring, bigger dimensioned timber and all sorts of other stuff out toward Potomac, past Bonner.
We also got an old window with mouth-blown glass in the panes, whereof one needs to be replaced (new pane included, more on this type of glass.here). It was truly a fun experience to visit them, and Suzanne helped keep track of me and made the trip such a joy.


Then we went to Plains, and back to the Yoder Cedar Works, to buy some of their cull wood (second or third assortment bundles that sell for much less than normal), same as Valerie and I did for the sauna last year. Jonas Yoder is fantastic to work with, and not only sold us the cull wood at a decent price, but also let us rummage their burn pile out on a field in 110°F heat, where we got more of the thin siding we used for the Starlight Shower last year. And not to forget, the wonderful Chris at ACE Hardware, for being so patient and fun when we were tired silly just before closing, and thought the discount bin was the greatest thing ever. Biggest salvage shoutout still goes to Suzanne, the best possible road trip companion who also found every little thing that I lost,  like possibly my mind when we both jumped in the river fully clothed on our way back.
Too much fun!
Whew, and thank you!

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Events are intense, and it is really important to take the time you need to decompress, find some solitude and summon up strength again, at least if you're an ambivert like me. I had been going full force since I got there two weeks earlier, attending the Modern Homesteading Festival in Idaho, meeting all the fabulous PTJ participants, planning the days for the Poo Crew who helped me make changes to the willow feeders, so come last Thursday, I was pooped.
Wrung out.
Melted.
Done...

Now that we'd stashed the 2x4's from Heritage Timber and all the cedar we could muster behind the sauna (the only place semi-hidden from Eagle Eye Dad), we could start the build - but it was already Thursday by this point!
The second Thursday.
The day before the event ends.
Yeah.
That Thursday.  

This Swede tends to melt in high temperatures, and the water at the Lab didn't work, so there was no way of cooling down up there, and no time to go to the river.
I'd promised Rio to have a cut-list (a list of measurements for every board to be cut on a project, which makes assembly a breeze when they're quickly cut and properly marked up) with ready and marked up plans for the build, but I came up as short as one cuts a boring story.
I didn't do what I'd promised, and to put it bluntly, failed at the task at hand.

What I did have was a design we'd collectively come up with during our earlier nights at the fire pit, incorporating the best features of the other willow feeders and nixing what didn't quite work any more, taking the recipient of the SSSS ((Stephen's Scenic Sh*tter Surprise, or the Poo with a View) and his wishes into account after many sneaky questions over the previous week.

It's okay to fall apart sometimes, especially if you've got a good group who will help put you back together again, so when people started showing up to the super secret build, we split into three groups - the entertainment faction around the fire pit (led by Big Liz, Eve and Beau), the get sh*t done faction beside the sauna (Rio and Mike's crew), and a third, roving one with Clay and Brian, who felled a tree to make log posts for a foundation, investigating how best to implement those in place on the lot.

I stepped away from the building crew, as my head just wasn't with it, but I handed it off to the very competent duo Rio and Mike, who both did a phenomenal job trying to decipher some very rough sketches in my sketch book. Those sketches made a ton of sense to me and me alone. No cut-list, no specifics, just rough measurements of walls, floors, doors, seats and hatches, then I stayed out of their way. R&M had a group with Patti (Pattilicious), Chad, Jason, Suzanne, Will and several others drill pilot holes and do a dimensional lumber build. I'm sure JR was working with them too, and he stepped up above and beyond through this build too, until the very end. JR is a golden-voiced gem, and if you ever have the chance to work with him, take it!

Brian and Clay, two of the Bearded Beauties, felled a tree, sawed it into appropriate lengths and stripped the bark, preparing for the foundation. You see, the SSSS will only be a sh*ttable structure, rather than also a skiddable one. That comes with a number of benefits, as well as some drawbacks. Such as that as of this writing, the foundations aren't quite done yet, whereas a skiddable doesn't need a foundation, just levelling up the skids and other supporting beam structure. I can't emphasize enough the need to finish a project, or at least bring it far enough that others aren't hindered by what you've done. I know the SKIP-ers need that flatbed trailer this week, and hope they can use it soon to do their backing up BB. Of course there's a bigger trailer that will make their BB exams much more impressive, but that doesn't negate the fact that the smaller one is being used for a project I didn't finish in my allotted time. More on that later.

Those Bearded Beauties also went with me to check on Stephen's/Dad's plot, and I sent up a wish that he wouldn't hate us for building on his newly acquired land... and if so, the blame lands solely on me. The road to hell is paved in good intentions, and all that. Overstepping and apologies, the pragmatic approach to building a Sh*tter Surprise...

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Okay, so now I have to tell you about the Dad Drama of the Day.
EVERYONE was in on this build, in some way or another. It is a beautiful thing to see such a diversity of people come together to make something good, and though I was drained from the weather and lack of rest, I am still high from the Poo with the View build, because of all the love and hard work that went into it.
From Mike and Rio's deciphering my scratches, to each and every person who tried to help with
Operation Divert Dad, THANK YOU!

Stephen, being the conscientious person that he is, nearly undid us on Friday afternoon.
Brian and Ben had one big job, and that was to make things run as smoothly as possible, taking over all tasks at the Lab, and to Keep Stephen at Basecamp until the framing was done. No such luck though, when Super Dad Stephen decided to make his rounds and check in on each project... full panic ensued. For hours. The messages from Friday are epic, from "Stephen is coming to check the pump house this is a warning" to decidedly darker ones as the afternoon progressed. People were cycling through, taking a little break from their projects to help out for an hour or so before heading back to their main tasks, and rumors and text messages flew wildly across the Lab. Best part was, Brian and Ben had no idea if Stephen had figured it out, as they had no contact with us after he left to come check on everything. A nerve-wracking afternoon, for sure.

For anyone who participated in Operation Divert Dad, please add a comment on what your attempt was, and how it ultimately failed. From Catastrophic Engine Failure to becoming a Human Roadblock... we could seriously have used a Marauder's Map right about then.
After many rounds of discussions, we settled on that we had to give him something, some hint at why he couldn't come check on the Cooper Cabin / Sauna crew, so Clay finally saved the day and made him solemnly promise to leave us be, solely admitting that there was a surprise of sorts in the works. Clay had to promise in return, that all was well and "the kids" hadn't screwed up too badly, and this wasn't an attempt at hiding a catastrophe until we'd cleaned it up.

Back to Thursday night, Rio, Mike and their wall-tastic group built the walls and started the floor, working till just past midnight, all based on those non-specific specifications. The next morning (Friday), JR came over and helped me move the four walls to semi-hidden spots on Stephen's plot, then we spent a little time working on the split-level floor and stairs, between work on the Cooper Pooper and the deliciously lower temperatures in Cooper Cabin while Operation Divert Dad ensued.
At the end of the PTJ work day, more people flocked in to help, ensuring the framing got done.

So Pattilicious, Chad, JR, Clay, Jason, Beau, Des and several more helped us get the floor and box seat just right, then we moved it over to Stephen's plot. There, we kept it on the trailer (no foundation posts just yet), and attached the walls to it, with some modifications done in place. Patti worked that circular saw like a champ, Chad lent his massive strength to big things like swivelling the structure and carrying lumber, while superteam Clay and JR (ClayR?) were measuring and lifting walls in place and down again, seemingly infinitely, to make changes until they fit just right. We realized a big flaw in the original design, and made cripple walls on the fly to fix it. This crew kept both mood and motivation up, and was absolutely stellar to work with!

It was a very very stressful evening, with just a brief break for a brisket dinner, courtesy of James, Jessie and Holly, expertly cooked by Katt, Charlie and the gang.
Delicious!
The Poo Crew were first in line and the first to leave, heading back up for more adjustments, while others prepared for the end of course s'mores at the fire pit, which is now an established tradition.

Once we were done enough, we had them Dad-nap Stephen and drive him on over to his plot, approaching from the south (past the pump house) for the best surprise reveal. We hid amongst the trees, and creeping like something out of a Stephen King movie, we walked slowly out of the woods as the cars came around the last curve and stopped, while we sang "We built a Poo with a View for you, Stephen, a Poo with a View for you!" as the dust from the cars settled around us...

It was so good to have something to present before everyone left the next day, whereafter we went back to the fire pit for more s'mores and a wonderful night of finally relaxing and enjoying a beautiful sunset over the mountains.

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Unfortunately, I started a project that I did not have time to complete.
I had a design, and we collected many of the materials, but as of yet, the SSSS/PwaV is just a frame that still sits on the flatbed trailer, four posts in the ground next to it. There have been plans made for the next step, and I do think this has the potential to be one heck of a good building when it is done.
Brian will keep us updated, I am sure.

For those of you who participated in the build, and have pictures or film from it, please send it to me via sprend!!! I'd love to edit a little something together about these crazy two days, so send me a pm and I'll reply with where to sprend the files to (www.sprend.com, for sending larger files). Then I will add the video to this thread, so send me your frames, please!

Thanks all, for being such magical creatures and making this build happen.
The design and framing of Stephen's Scenic Sh*tter Surprise / Poo with a View was an absolutely fantastic team effort, where we all came together to help it be as good as there was time for. I hope that it will find a foundation soon, as well as siding, a roof and the pole barn extension, and stand proud for many years to come. I hope it will be a nice place to poo with a view for anyone over on that side of the lab.
The whole Scenic Sh*tter Surprise part, well that is now mischief managed.

I will try to post some pics of the intended design, including an extended roof pole barn to the north, because every new homestead needs a dry place to store stuff.

Here are some pictures of the build... good times!

What a wonderful close to an awesome PTJ!

Stephen, I hope you get some walls before winter. I'm attaching a pic of the man in his high castle.  Ha ha!

I got a message from Mike yesterday evening, apparently they've unloaded the building onto posts now!

Thanks to everyone involved in doing that.
Mike, feel free to post some pictures here for all to see - and again, great job.

I am thinking of build a slightly scaled up version of Steve’s scenic sh!++er with some repurposed wood from an old deck structure that I will be taking down.  It will be a learning experience.

Chad, that's awesome!
Please post pictures as you go, would be fun to see.

/K

Chad Stephenson wrote:I am thinking of build a slightly scaled up version of Steve’s scenic sh!++er with some repurposed wood from an old deck structure that I will be taking down.  It will be a learning experience.

I will start a new topic on Permies when I get started and maybe open a Rumble channel as well.  

I'm talking with Kate and Stephen about the plans and what they need to complete Stephen's Scenic Shitter. If anyone wants to donate any dough to the project so Stephen can buy the rest of the materials, I'm handling the donations. Purple moosage me and I'll get you the info you need to send the materials money to Stephen.

I can't wait to see it finished!

Incredibly cool that the project is living on!

Way to go, Tina!

Tina Wolf wrote:I'm talking with Kate and Stephen about the plans and what they need to complete Stephen's Scenic Shitter. If anyone wants to donate any dough to the project so Stephen can buy the rest of the materials, I'm handling the donations. Purple moosage me and I'll get you the info you need to send the materials money to Stephen.

I can't wait to see it finished!

Spoke with Stephen and he is going to need a bit of time to rest and recuperate from the last month that was full of summer events at Wheaton Labs. As soon as he is rested up, he will decide what he needs to complete his willow feeder.

In the interim, he still needs to buy wood and some hardware to close it in. I'm pitching in $50 because I would love to see it finished before the winter (just so you know my motivation!). Please let me know if you want to pitch in too and I'll send you the link.

I find it so fun to live vicariously through the projects at Wheaton Labs! Especially, from the boot point of view!

This is Stephens BEL thread so you can see a bunch of the stuff he takes care of at Wheaton Labs. It's Awesome!!!

https://permies.com/t/950/181512/SEPP-Boot-Stephen-Experience

Stephen received a donation via regular mail so I wanted to share that address for any others who might wish to do the same.

Stephen Thomas
c/o Paul Wheaton
2120 s reserve #351,
Missoula, MT 59801

You can always purple moosage Stephen directly for his paypal link.

I was part of the stout-hearted Poo Crew right up until I was a Shitter Quitter and joined JR’s Log Lifting Lot over at the Sepp Holzer root cellar.

While my name is not Mike, I will indeed

Kate McRae wrote:feel free to post some pictures here for all to see

Of the posts in all their glory!
Way to go team, really looks great

Join the livestream this Saturday, 7 September, for more crappy conversation!
Livestream Link

Okay, it's time for some SSSS-updates, isn't it?

Stephen asked me if I had some plans for his outhouse, and well, of course I do! Super clear, right here in my head.
I assured him I'd jot them down and send right on over, which... hasn't happened yet.

Since I asked him about 997 questions about what aspects he liked of the existing willow feeders, and his plot, and tried to design it according to all of his favorite features (as well as some I deemed super necessary), I have some very specific ideas. I don't know if people have been working on his sh*tter during the T-day week, but I did briefly consider going over in November to help out for a week... unfortunately for the sh*tter, I got hold of some half-priced building materials over here, and blew my budget on those, instead, so I can finish a couple tiny houses to sell. Ah well.

Since I'm working and also studying at 150% this semester, I haven't had the time to give the full sketch-up run down of my ideas. I keep meaning to get to it, but... yeah. So I decided something's better than nothing, and I'd post some hows and whys here, taking the pressure off the full presentation and just write a little bit when I can.

Q: Where is the SSSS placed, and why?
A: It's placed about 20 feet in from the road, on Stephen's property but easily accessible for other guests of the lab as well as Stephen.

Q: Why is the door on the south side, and why does it open inward (in the design, at least)
A: We wanted to make it welcoming for people coming both from where Stephen's camp will be, and the road. Having the door open outwards would always make it an awkward approach from one direction or the other (W toward the road, or E toward his camp). Having the door on the south side welcomes both equally, as does having it open inwards.

Q: Why are the willow candy box and hatch facing the road?
A: For easy access when it's emptied. That's also why the structure is so close to the road - so whomever's emptying the cans doesn't have to drag it too far.

Q: Why have I designed it with a pole barn extension to the north and west?
A: Because ANY starting homestead or building project needs LOTS of dry space to store tools, gear, and to work in while you're building stuff. I can't stress this enough.
I have built outhouses before, and I've built in remote settings, and in spartan ones, many times. Of course, in Northern Europe, rain, hail and snow are frequent visitors, and my pet peeve is poor use of resources. So I take care of my tools, and the building materials. A lot of energy has gone into making those, and it's just wasteful to not make the most of them. I don't put electric tools on the ground unless I'm actively using them, because they're bound to be left behind in a rain squall, and remember - wet batteries burn bright! Once the moisture hits the lithium, it lights up like a magnesium strip in chem class, and makes mighty fine holes in anything flammable around it (sadly, I'm speaking form first hand experience on this).
So, first things first, put a roof over your workspace - whether for rain, or to protect from the sun. Doesn't matter if it's a tarp or a real roof, just get it done and make sure it'll hold.

A pole barn is an excellent choice, no need to build walls, which lets air flow beneath it keeping it cooler in summer, and helping boards dry if they're stacked to do so.
The reason to have it on the north side is to give it some extra protection from the sun in summer, so the SSSS is under the south end of the roof. Extending it a few feet to the west means you can empty the willow candy box even in bad weather, but moreover, it brings some shade to the west side of the SSSS, which will keep the box (and the willow candy) from direct sunlight, thus keeping it from smelling as bad as some of the other willow feeders.
Remember, outhouses do really well in shade, just for this reason, but when you have a solar fan or a trombe wall, those need direct sunlight. This is an example of the Hummer limousine paradox - when you're trying to incorporate two very different functions, neither will function to the best capacity. A stretch limo won't ever be an excellent off-road vehicle, even if it's a Hummer. And a Hummer won't ever be a super comfy limo.
An outhouse doesn't do the best job out in direct full sunlight (unless it's really well insulated), but the solar fan and trombe wall do need sunlight, so... compromise. Thus, the extended roof to the west, allowing the candy box to be in shadow until the late evening in winter, when the angle of the rays are lower in the sky.

Okay, it's past midnight here now, and I'm just going to publish this first post on how the design goes, and what materials to use where, etc. etc., so here's the drawing of the SSSS from above. If memory serves, the rough measurements of the outhouse as seen in the pictures above are about 6'5¨x7'. I'm a firm believer in having a decent overhang on the roof, to protect the walls and sills from weather, again, more important in wet climates, but it's just good practice.

More pictures and explanations to come, now that I've started this little series.

Q: Why did we "waste" beautiful cedar on the inside of the willow candy box?
A: we want the box to be fly-proof. Using good materials and building it without gaps and cracks, and a draw-bridge style hatch that opens downwards to easily pull the candy bucket out onto, and then closes completely, will make it so much more hygienic and far easier to keep flies out (as long as people remember to close the lid on the seat, too).

Let there be only one crack in the outhouse, and only when in use.

Okay. Still don't have the sketchups done, so I am just putting up more of the very early sketches.