Food Forest vs Permaculture

I've been reading so much about permaculture, and didn't know that for years I was doing it. Well, small scale (like a hugleculture) , but wanted to create more of a sustainable food supply where I let nature do most of the work. An I lazy - lol? One issue I've come across is that the "experts" are divided on whether permaculture is different from a food forest. I'd be grateful for any help to settle the issue, if you are able. Thanks.

I've been thinking about the question too, for a while. Food forestry is a subsection of permaculture -- it's one of many ways to grow lots of food in an ecologically friendly way. One could just as well grow a food prairie, or a food desert (i.e. a desert with suitable food plants for the climate).

The way I see it is that permaculture is a design system which you can use to design all aspects of your life and your land.

It comes with a lot of tools that are available for you to use.

A food forest is one of those tools. But it doesn't have to be the only tool, and it might not be the best tool for your situation.

So if you think a food forest would be a good permaculture addition to your land, go for it! Then if you really want to apply permaculture as a whole, think about everything as one harmonious system. Do you need earthworks doing before you start? What about water supply, and capture?  Do you already have a home to live in? If not, where to put it? What sort to build? How to make it fit with your food supply. What about heating? Can your food forest also supply wood for the fire? Can what is already growing there supply building materials? Do you need to build soil fertility at the start or can you do it as you go? How are you going to deal with poop? Can you make the whole thing work as one system that is as self sustaining as possible?

Once you start thinking in those broader terms, it becomes more than 'just' a food forest.

I am agreeable with Burra.  A food forest is a tool to use within permaculture.

Plant your food forest the way Mother Nature would plant her food forest.

I often get the question whether something is permaculture or not. My answer is always Permaculture is an ethics-based design science, not a not a series of rules on how to grow. My criteria for determining if a system can be used in a permaculture design is if it meets the three ethics (earth-care, people-care, the return of surplus) and it has at least three benefits. For example a hügelkultur bed meets these ethics, because among other benefits, it uses a renewal resource (wood) to provide nutrients, conserves water, and can be used to grow food or resources that can be looped back into the system. A hydroponic system as an alternative does not meet this criteria for me, because of the energy it often requires to grow effectively makes it unable to form a sustainable loop.

So as far as a food forest goes, it meets the ethics requirements and provides way more than 3 benefits, so yay you are practicing permaculture!

To make it more complicated, you can use permaculture design itself as a tool, not necessarily a dogma. For instance, you could have a food forest and an indoor hydroponic grow room and say you are practicing permaculture, even though you also do hydroponics. But if you are only doing hydroponics, you can't say you are practicing permaculture unless you are doing it in a way that meets the three ethics, and provides three benefits. Got to love semantics!

This:

"Permaculture is the conscious design and maintenance of agriculturally productive ecosystems which have the diversity, stability, and resilience of natural ecosystems. It is the harmonious integration of landscape and people providing their food, energy, shelter, and other material and non-material needs in a sustainable way." Bill Mollison, Permaculture A Designers Manual

To convince folks to love permaculture I would want to talk about living with nature.

Here is a video that sums up the Permaculture Designers Manual in One Hour

https://youtu.be/oUIGzy0bqFY