Pigeon keeping

how do you keep pigeons in a permaculture system, how when do you make bonded pairs and collect harvest and so forth. how do you keep them away from the crops you don't want them to eat and keep them in your food forest. I'm so confused. I dont think i could keep pigeons in a way i could respect. I wouldn't want a colony to spread or wander. Do pigeons teach the babies how do find food? err. so hard to figure things out right now. It was a bit like how i found you could keep rabbits in a warren instead of a cage system which i never really liked. Then put the babies out in tractors

I hope to one day raise pidgeons for squab meat, and have done some research on the topic. However, I don't have any personal experience with them.

It IS possible to raise pigeons "free range" by setting up a dovecote, and this was the most popular way to do so for hundreds of years, if not thousands! In fact, I've heard that if you have a nice enough set up, your domesticated pigeons can bring home wild pigeons to roost in your dovecote, providing you with free meat if they stay and nest.

However, just as chickens and rabbits have changed from their wild cousins, domesticated pigeons have been selectively bred for many purposes. If you are looking for a squabbing pidgeon, they are referred to as Utility Pigeons. There are also racing pigeons, Fancy pigeons, show quality pigeons, and other types.

How you could control what they ate while free ranging would require require bird-prevention methods would be my guess, such as netting, fake owls, and pie pans on string.

We've only got 3 pigeons so far. (Bought a pair and a third one just showed up one day) We kept them caged a few weeks then turned them loose and they took up residence in our barn loft. They pretty much only eat the seeds we put out and grass seed so far, I've never seen them bother any of my plantings, but if you had a flock of 30 or so it might be different. In Lancaster, PA there were a few farms that raised white homing pigeons and let large flocks of them fly loose and they grew crops as well as their neighbors, I wouldn't think if pigeons were destructive they'd do that.

Not sure how true this is, but I've read that in the old days pigeon keeping really just involved keeping a place for them to nest to their liking - like "If you build it, they will come". Some places, like the desert, they didn't even feed the pigeons, just harvested the eggs or squabs when they wanted them. Also that pigeons in barn lofts used to be common until they were blamed for hog cholera, when they were wiped out by farmers who then started thinking of them as dirty, disease-carrying vermin.

My pair disliked the really nice nesting platform we made them and instead try to nest on the narrow beam at the very top of the barn roof - the result is lots of dropped eggs and chicks. They've yet to successfully raise any offspring tho they seem close to hatching some eggs this time.

I'm starting to wonder if they will cross-breed with wild doves because the wild doves that come to eat our bird seed seem unusually large this year and before the new bird showed up there was one dove in particular that liked to hang out near the pigeons.

Last, I'd stay away from the breeds that grow really huge - doubt they'd self-feed much and may be poor flyers away from predators.

One thing I've never been able to ferret out in my reading about keeping pigeons.... If you want to free-range your birds, as with a dovecote (which is what I'm planning) how do you tame or habituate your breeders to your location, so they don't just fly away to wherever they were born, or wherever they want to go, instead of coming back to the dovecote?

Cage them and feed them in the coop for a few weeks as breeding pairs. Once they establish a pairing and start a nest they will stay.

It helps if you can close the door to each nest box or part of the coop separately, so you can restrict and manage the pairs.

Around here wild wood pigeons are a major pest and at various times of year there are chaps with shotguns out in the surrounding fields culling them. Not unusual for the chaps to shoot 100 a day. The damage a large flock can do to vulnerable crops is remarkable - oil seed rape planted in autumn to over winter gets stripped down to the bare stalks while areas that aren't hit can be a foot high by spring.

Mike

Renate Haeckler wrote:We've only got 3 pigeons so far. (Bought a pair and a third one just showed up one day) We kept them caged a few weeks then turned them loose and they took up residence in our barn loft. They pretty much only eat the seeds we put out and grass seed so far, I've never seen them bother any of my plantings, but if you had a flock of 30 or so it might be different. In Lancaster, PA there were a few farms that raised white homing pigeons and let large flocks of them fly loose and they grew crops as well as their neighbors, I wouldn't think if pigeons were destructive they'd do that.

Not sure how true this is, but I've read that in the old days pigeon keeping really just involved keeping a place for them to nest to their liking - like "If you build it, they will come". Some places, like the desert, they didn't even feed the pigeons, just harvested the eggs or squabs when they wanted them. Also that pigeons in barn lofts used to be common until they were blamed for hog cholera, when they were wiped out by farmers who then started thinking of them as dirty, disease-carrying vermin.

My pair disliked the really nice nesting platform we made them and instead try to nest on the narrow beam at the very top of the barn roof - the result is lots of dropped eggs and chicks. They've yet to successfully raise any offspring tho they seem close to hatching some eggs this time.

I'm starting to wonder if they will cross-breed with wild doves because the wild doves that come to eat our bird seed seem unusually large this year and before the new bird showed up there was one dove in particular that liked to hang out near the pigeons.

Last, I'd stay away from the breeds that grow really huge - doubt they'd self-feed much and may be poor flyers away from predators.

that is a lot of REALLY good info. so no utility pigeons if you plan on free ranging .. i wonder if there is away to put them into a high food area and also keep them in the area... cos i kinda want to harvest the squab

Hi all

Am getting pigeons next week and thought I would see if anyone on here has built them successful housing? I want them to forage during the day and return to roost. Also, of course to breed. So, in making a list of their needs:

- clean water
- roosting places (height? diameter? will they huddle together like chickens?)
- nesting boxes (size? litter? entry hole size?)
- supplementary food
- dry
- warm
- rodent/predator proof
- oriented entrance to East?
- arrival landing place?
- nearby 'safe' perch to check cage is safe?

Please post any more that I have not thought of and details if you know them

Thank you

Rick Berry wrote:One thing I've never been able to ferret out in my reading about keeping pigeons.... If you want to free-range your birds, as with a dovecote (which is what I'm planning) how do you tame or habituate your breeders to your location, so they don't just fly away to wherever they were born, or wherever they want to go, instead of coming back to the dovecote?

If they are homing pigeons or homing cross, they may return, but home is often where the female is, so if you make a breeding pair you can usually convince a male homing pigeon to stay
Females : no in my experience

If homing pigeons are born on your property they will stay, but don't make good stock for selling live for the same reason

Utility kings are excellent breeders and don't fly away but are pretty smart (homers being the smartest)
Giant runts are really dumb but have lots of breast meat as do show kings and modenas which look like little balls or teapots. I protect my purebreds in cages during the winter and ferret season, pun intended, early spring. The rest are loose and I have three dove cotes, one on the balcony which is separated and shared with the dog and smokers.

If you have adopted adult homing pigeons honestly you will need to keep the ones you don't want to lose in captivity

I have crosses of swift pigeons, utility kings, homers, and some teapots, and giant runt crosses all free range.

The female passes to chicks size and shape while the males pass on color (daughters receive one of his two color genes) and the sons get the color gene from Mom along with one of his pa's.

So the most effective cross is a large female with a big breast, and a smart little homer cross or utility king who will cost less to feed and be a great father -- also it's the male that brings the debris to the nest and the female that arranges it (except pure giant runts can be too dumb and inbred so then I twist up a nest myself)

Yes, most male pigeons are smart enough to teach their offspring the ropes, and often the females do as well, however, chicks have enough instinct to look after themselves if you have orphaned chicks -- I just give them extra protection and make sure they have their own cages to return to at night -- (leave the cage open days) -- you can usually lump a few in together with a few nesting boxes to choose from. I double cage if the cages will be outside with a cover over the top and prevailing wind. This stops predators getting at them and I use 1/4" mesh around the cages; chicken wire is only good for the inside cage to prevent the pigeons from getting too close to the outside cage.
Weasels will literally chew their way through wire framed with wood so having a livestock dog is a big bonus! Mine is a cross of German Shepherd, Lab, Akita so not a typical choice for a livestock dog but often you can get lucky!

D Graves wrote:Hi all

Am getting pigeons next week and thought I would see if anyone on here has built them successful housing? I want them to forage during the day and return to roost. Also, of course to breed. So, in making a list of their needs:

- clean water
- roosting places (height? diameter? will they huddle together like chickens?)
- nesting boxes (size? litter? entry hole size?)
- supplementary food
- dry
- warm
- rodent/predator proof
- oriented entrance to East?
- arrival landing place?
- nearby 'safe' perch to check cage is safe?

Please post any more that I have not thought of and details if you know them

Thank you

Sorry for the late reply

I have been breeding pigeons for about 8 years and let mine free range.

Pigeons needs clean water -- if it's clean enough that you're not afraid to drink it, it's okay

If you feed them, they won't bother the neighbors
Mine get lots of corn, buckwheat, sunflower, and field peas, plus mixed grains that you will find for chickens
They will also forage buckwheat, wild spinach, and weed seed and oats
Supplements: if they can't get to small rocks, you need to provide them and I get the red rocks with the sea shells
Also vitamins on occasion -- I mix mine with rice
Salt: kocher / pickling salt, or better: non iodized sea salt. Pigeons are connoisseurs of salt, but enjoy road salt too

The best wire against predators is 1/4" mesh -- stops mice too

The males will show the chicks the ropes, but even orphaned chicks usually do okay as long as they are protected while really young. Chicks will start self feeding about 2-1/2-3-1/2 weeks and drinking around 3 weeks on average. I've kept chicks alive on defrosted frozen peas even from 2 days old, eventually adding to this limited diet, but there's enough moisture in the peas they can survive. Choking on water is a problem with baby chicks. Squeeze the sides of their breaks to get them to open wide.

Chicks will take after the size and shape of mom and color from dad

Homing pigeons will try to escape home especially females but males can sometimes be persuaded to stay if they have been mated and are already making chicks. They are the smartest. Utility kings make the best parents, well, I find crosses do, and mine are swift pigeon crosses with stock from a blacksmith a few miles away.

I breed giant runts to keep breeding back large birds and about half are 1/2-7/8 giant runt, and I usually have about four breeding pair and then and their youngsters need more protection in winter and early spring in XL plastic dog cages. I have a few show king and Modena crosses as well, identifiable by their team pot apparence and wide breast. I've found they live a long life, but homers can live over 10 years as well.

Normally crosses are fine with nesting boxes the size of milk crates, and the males will collect debris and the females make the nest.  Giant runts are not great at this and I bring them prickly hay that has no pesticides being I garden with all the poo, the main reason for having them.

If you are going to breed any purebreds, give them an experienced crossbreed partner for me first year. When they vomit in each other's mouths they are sharing microbiome as well, and crosses are invariably stronger.  Chicks will huddle but grown pigeons might huddle with their mate, otherwise not

They need not have any heat, but lots of ventilation and cutting the prevailing wind helps

I find an old leaky motorhome, repaired with roofing tar,  makes the most cost effective vote. Mesh the windows and any holes and plywood that predators could eat their way through. Park it downwind from a windbreaker in winter, and in the shade in summer

Crosses will be ready to breed in about 4-6 weeks