Is there a perfect Permie homesteading tree for wood and lumber that is 50 state legal?

Black locust is a good candidate for the perfect Permie tree.  It grows fast, is very hard & strong, is impervious to rot, and burns hot & slow.  Unfortunately, there are several states that ban its deliberate planting as it is considered invasive.  Now I know that there are multiple varieties of locust, so I have two related questions for anyone out there in the know:

1)  Do other varieties of Locust share all of the properties of the Black Locust (at least those mentioned above)?  Might thornless varieties work just as well but without the pain of having thorns?

2)  Is is possible to have a Black Locust that does not go to seed and therefore does not grow out of control?  Is there such a thing as an all-male variety of Black Locust?  Would such a thing still be Permie acceptable?

3) I know, 3rd question out of two. Even better than the hypothetical tree in question #2, could there/is there such a variety that not only stays put, but also lacks thorns?

I would love to hear your responses.

Eric

I have found a few hybrids... and while I don't know if that actually makes them more perfect for use or not (I haven't found a lot of info on them), I think the possibility is there.  I don't know how much any of them have thorns.

Robinia slavinii 'Hillieri'
(kelseyi x pseudoacacia)
18-24' tree
shell pink flowers

Robinia x margaretta 'Pink Cascade' (Casque Rouge)

(hispida x pseudoacacia)
25-30' tree
purplish pink flowers

Robinia x ambigua 'Decaisneana'

(kelseyi x pseudoacacia)
50' tree
light pink flowers

What about the thornless honeylocust?  Wouldn't that fulfill the role you're looking for?

Is there a perfect Permie homesteading tree that is 50 state legal?

Short answer is no.

There is way too much diversity and difference in ecosystems within the "50" states - Florida to high desert to Alaska to Hawai'i to the Wet Coast.

Even within some states, even if it was "legal" it might not be "perfect Permie".

On the principle of "perfect" is the enemy of "good enough", I would consider what permie use you want your tree to have for your specific ecosystem and go with it. You might discover that the best would be a polyculture of 3-7 trees - some fast growers that you will cut down for firewood but provide protection for some slower growers which will have long term benefits like shade.

Fair points Jay,

I probably should have tightened up my definition of “perfect.”  By that, I was specifically looking for a tree used for its lumber/wood qualities as opposed to being a pollinator or a fruit tree.  Of course, I am a fan of diversity in my trees also.  

The second part about I was thinking about something that was legal in upper Midwest states where Black Locust is presently banned.  Black Locust just has so many practical uses that it is ashamed that it is illegal to plant in many of these states (this ban extends to many North Eastern states as well).  And while it may be a stretch to think about planting Black Locust in Arizona or Nevada (but maybe I am wrong here), I don’t know if it is actually banned in those places as it is mostly just not a good growing climate for Black Locust.

Either way, thanks for reality checking me.  Maybe my revised definition makes more sense.

Eric

If you want lumber, you want a tree that will grow straight, which means ideally growing it with fast-growing neighbors that will force it to grow "up".

Off the top of my head, I think of Oak - but there are a bunch of different varieties and my native Island one isn't a good lumber tree.

Similar problem with Maple. Some are totally fast-growing almost useless for lumber like what we call "Manitoba Maple". However, my understanding is that at least one variety called Sugar Maple is much slower growing and makes more useful lumber.

Have to head out, but I will put Jacke's Edible Forest Garden on my desk as I'm am pretty sure that in the back he has a little chart on trees that are good for lumber... so stay tuned!

Jay Angler wrote:...I will put Jacke's Edible Forest Garden on my desk as I'm am pretty sure that in the back he has a little chart on trees that are good for lumber...

First, Jacke's only lists trees good for coppicing. If you consider that an option, I'll list some of those. Just because they *can* be coppiced, doesn't mean that's the only way to use the species.

Second, somewhere I picked up a PDF called, The Agroforestry Handbook for UK. It lists the following trees for "timber".
Oak, Poplar, Douglas Fir (its popular in my province), Pines, Sycamore, Beech, "Cricket bat willow" (we'd have look into that one???), Wild cherry, Sweet Chestnut, and fruit trees grown for lumber (ie, to be more upright and less spreading).

Does that help?

If you want a tree that’s legal for lumber and you want to use that lumber for the structure of a permitted building (say for example, you want to use it for a building that has electrical or hvac or occupants) and you’re in a place that uses the international residential code, I’m almost sure you’re limited to trees that suck for firewood- fir, pine, spruce, and cedar. This is because structural timbers must be graded and stamped, and there are only structural grading standards for fast growing softwoods that are grown by forestry companies.

Being nitrogen fixers is one of the major things that make the locusts desirable for permaculture.  But also, I think, is the ability to grow them from seed... as I doubt there are many permaculturists taking the route of cloning all their support trees, when sowing seeds can be quicker and much less expensive.  That's where the non-invasive and thornless qualities stand out, as these are traits you need of every seedling you grow.  (It's a given that wild-gathered seeds are not likely to produce seedless/fruitless trees, so you have to pay attention to ones that are tame about it.)  I believe that's where the honeylocust shines, in that it does have a thornless variety that grows from seed, while being apparently tame enough as to be the alternative recommended when black locust is too invasive to consider.

As it turns out, this winter I'll be getting in a selection of thornless honeylocust cultivars to grow into propagation stock (alongside the 2 Robinia I have), and it'll be interesting to see how they all compare to each other as support plants.

All the rest of the suggestions offered (I think) were not legumes... and so then it boils down to which wood qualities you're looking for and what site conditions you have to grow them in.

As for Cricket Bat Willow... my notes (gleaned from all over, in relation to new cuttings I stuck this winter) tell me that Salix alba var. caerulea is the only tree that can be used for official cricket bats (thus why it is known as the Cricket Bat Willow), being prized for its lightweight, impact-resistant wood ideal for that use.  Otherwise, it is a deciduous Tree growing to 25 m (82ft) by 10 m (32ft) at a fast rate (clearly from PFAF), and has a very straight (to 60't x 30'w) pyramidal head, attractive lance-shaped blue-green foliage and 2" yellow spring catkins (from ForestFarm).  It grows quickly, reaching maturity in 12 to 20 years. In good conditions, it can grow to be 100 ft tall and 15 to 18 ft in girth.
I thought this was an interesting find simply because it illustrates (once again) just how different a single variety can be from other members of a species just in wood quality (or any other given characteristic), enough to truly make it stand out in value.  I suppose that's why I prefer to deal so much in cloned cultivars, so as to nurture these standouts everywhere I can in the landscape.

I'm gonna suggest mulberry.
It grows fast, coppice/pollards well, burns well and the wood is durable.
I'm not sure if any of that applies to the varieties that also give good fruit or leaves, and I have never grown one from seed, but the cuttings do take pretty well.
The only mulberry  cultivar I've ever planted  struggles to this day, but that could be due to my placement.

As for Black Locust, Sean from Edible Acres seems to reliably propagate them from root cuttings.
I have a black locust with minimal thorns, that seems to have come from a nearby mature tree with similar growth patterns.
My own specimen is in a bad spot, so it gets chopped down every year,and every year it grows ~ 8 feet.

My grandfather's land in the mountains of NC is Covered in Black locust. The trees seem to die off when they get old, but they seldom fall, so we call them standing wood piles. They are not terrible to split, especially if its real cold out, but they are very hard on blades, and have a propensity to check and warp, making them a poor choice for lumber compared to some other species. They make great posts, and of course are fantastic firewood. Here's one of our piles up there from this past summer. The layer you are looking at is the 4th later depth wise. We can normally go 5 before blocking the light.