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Nick Johnson
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Hello
I'm from Sweden. I haven't studied permaculture very much but I know roughly what it is.

I have an idea of how to solve most of modern society's problems (widespread depression, environmental destruction, inequality and probably many more), and I'm wondering what you think about it.

It's very simple. I call it the "shift and shut down solution".

With "shift" I mean shifting from our current, very destructive way of getting food, to a sustainable way, namely permaculture.

With "shut down" I mean shutting down the most destructive and polluting parts of the industry.

These two actions then go hand in hand because all the people who lose their jobs when shutting down certain parts of the industry could just go and work with permaculture/horticulture since the permacultural way of getting food requires a lot more labour than the current destructive food production. Then new societies could be built around these permaculture gardens/fields; and those who live there could have lives with a base in nature and friends instead of in money and wage labour.

We, humanity, could then take this as long as we wanted. We could keep 20% (so long as it's possible) of the industry, or 10% or 1% or 0%.

I've had this idea for quite some time and it is so obvious. I think if this very simple idea made it to the public, together with raw facts upon desertification etc., I think most people would want to let go of technology and money in order to live a life closer to Earth and friends, considering the benefits of it.

I mean, what could be nicer than spending more time with nature and with friends and less time with machines and money.
 
Leila Rich
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Welcome to permies Calle
I'm very much with you on the theory of your
Calle Edlund wrote: "shift and shut down"

but from what I've seen of the vast majority of people,they most definitely don't want to
Calle Edlund wrote: let go of technology and money in order to live a life closer to Earth and friends

I think the most positive thing I can do is to try and live the way I feel best with, while staying engaged with wider social/political stuff.
 
Nick Johnson
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Hm.. okay. Glad to hear you're with me.
But I've read that 30-50% or something of the people in the capitol of Sweden, Stockholm, would like to move out on the countryside, if they only could.
 
Landon Sunrich
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Yeah I'm with it.

But

This would take at least 10 years wouldn't you say? What would come first? How are you going to explain this to private industry? The people of the world? Wouldn'y we have to collectively but the entirety of our emphasis on food production? We would need to continue producing food conventionally durring the 'shift' process to do this we need to keep oil trade open. Outlaw personal automobiles? Tax petro out of the common mans hands? Shut down industry and commerce durring this shift? That means government insuring the food supply continues to function doesn't it? I mean the costs stay the same (at year one) but the purchasing power of the populace goes down (as everyone quits their job to 'grow their own').


I'm just saying this is a great idea. But we need a great plan. Ya got one? 'Cause something needs to change.

I have had political discussions with Egyptians who wanted to close the Suez canal as leverage against the west. That'd be interesting. But I'm afraid in my country many people would freak out if all of a sudden they couldn't drive their cars. And I don't see many others giving it up voluntarily.

Anyway.

Dear America, Canada, and western Europe,

Please quit your jobs, slack off, stop driving, start engaging and enjoying life, as well holding yourselves and your representatives accountable to the future, and ceasing to believe the sick fantasy that you can have perpetual progress and unlimited growth on a finite sphere.

Also. You live in stockholm? Isn't that city like 40-50 percent parks? Why don't all y'all swedes who want to live in the country have an 'occupy the parks' or something - bring your bbq's and smoke some fish - just saying...

So Calle - how do we (as a global society) slow down, down shift, and stop the madness?

It's nice to meet you. I agree with your premiss 100 %.
 
Nick Johnson
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Landon Sunrich wrote:
This would take at least 10 years wouldn't you say?


It would take fifty or hundred years at least I think

Landon Sunrich wrote:
What would come first?


have no idea

Landon Sunrich wrote:
How are you going to explain this to private industry?


How about one billion people in the street?

Landon Sunrich wrote:
The people of the world?


How about a blog?

Landon Sunrich wrote:
Wouldn'y we have to collectively but the entirety of our emphasis on food production?


collectively but the entirety? not sure I understand.

Landon Sunrich wrote:
we would need to continue producing food conventionally durring the 'shift' process to do this we need to keep oil trade open. Outlaw personal automobiles? Tax petro out of the common mans hands? Shut down industry and commerce durring this shift? That means government insuring the food supply continues to function doesn't it? I mean the costs stay the same (at year one) but the purchasing power of the populace goes down (as everyone quits their job to 'grow their own').


Haven't thought about the details so much. Ofcourse there are problems but ofcourse there are solutions to them as well. Just a matter of positive thinking and making some compromises I guess.

Landon Sunrich wrote:
I'm just saying this is a great idea. But we need a great plan. Ya got one? 'Cause something needs to change.


No no great plan here. Just some ideas.

Landon Sunrich wrote:
Also. You live in stockholm? Isn't that city like 40-50 percent parks? Why don't all y'all swedes who want to live in the country have an 'occupy the parks' or something - bring your bbq's and smoke some fish - just saying...


not quite that much but there are a few. Though many of them are noisy and a little smelly from all the cars. And yeah bringing some bbq and fish would be nice but we're so damn up tight here so seeing that is like... rare. I guess people are afraid of what others would think about them. And then there are all the cars.

Landon Sunrich wrote:So Calle - how do we (as a global society) slow down, down shift, and stop the madness?


how about facing our fears and stop thinking for a start?
 
Leila Rich
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I thought I'd posted a more positive reply than my first, but I clearly didn't
Calle Edlund wrote:how about facing our fears and stop thinking for a start?

For me, thinking and doing are totally entwined; but I very much understand the danger of thinking so hard that nothing happens!
At the other end of the scale is all that mindless doing and no thinking...
 
Landon Sunrich
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Calle,

What we instead then we decided to "shut down and shift"?

By which I mean more or less immediately deciding to 'shut down' all non vital industry and service? You know a "Hey world = lets try an experiment" of course that would require some form of leadership and a discussion of what's vital and what's not. I would start with commercial airlines and personal automobiles used primarily to "commute".

This relates to a theory I have about time compression and long drawn out metaphor about middle eastern genies in oil lamps.

A billion people in the streets huh?

I got it! Let's occupy Ikea! All that wood and metal!! The resource extraction and the shipping alone!!! Best of all I've got one near near me. I think everyone's got one within like 75 miles.

Lets do it! That's my plan!

or

We could start an "Ideas and Philosophies" Thread under Drivel in hopes of it aspiring to something more.

Pity there is no real leadership eh?


 
Nick Johnson
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Leila Rich wrote:
For me, thinking and doing are totally entwined; but I very much understand the danger of thinking so hard that nothing happens!
At the other end of the scale is all that mindless doing and no thinking...


With stop thinking I meant that if you really stop thinking you'll start connecting to your spirit and find inner peace and in that way the insanity can stop and going back to nature is no longer a problem. And by facing your fears your mind come to a still also, at least in my experice, and when it is fears that really stands in the way of you expressing yourself.

I've started a blog btw. Here it is: http://shiftandshutdown.weebly.com/posts.html
 
This parrot is no more. It has ceased to be. Now it's a tiny ad:

The permaculture playing cards make great stocking stuffers:
http://richsoil.com/cards


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