Just wanted to post a few pics of our 6" portable rocket heater that is now available for shipping. If you are interested and want to see more pictures, you can go here. It is a quick and easy way to setup a rocket heater.
They look nice, don't they. ? A tour of the website fails to explain anything to my satisfaction. Numerous products are offered. A little 4" core is $350 and $90 shipping. That's $440 in total. If I needed a 4 inch core, I'd spend $30 on supplies and build one.
Special "patent pending" burn chambers are promised. Show me, and show me the results of real world testing. Thousands of people are capable of sawing refractory materials to create the shape of a J tube. How are these products unique ? What makes them better than one built at home ? How are you doing on those patents ?
The product pictured will set you back $1675. There's lots more to spend before it can heat a home. The website doesn't make it clear whether any homes are being heated with this unit.
Edit --- I spent an hour on the website. I'm accustomed to everything that is clickable being in blue. The print is rather small, so at first I didn't notice the click here signs. These links led to many photos and explanations.
I'm still not sure if any efficiency tests have been done. The only test that would matter to me is the one where a given weight of wood is used to heat a given weight of brick, cob or water. Simple math would allow me to figure out the efficiency if it hasn't already been done.
posted 5 years ago
Dale Hodgins wrote:They look nice, don't they. ? A tour of the website fails to explain anything to my satisfaction. Numerous products are offered. A little 4" core is $350 and $90 shipping. That's $440 in total. If I needed a 4 inch core, I'd spend $30 on supplies and build one.
Okay, don't buy. Our materials alone cost us many times more than your target $30, not to mention labor, cost of molds, cost of kilning, overhead etc.
Why the hostility? We are a small company trying to bring rocket heater concepts and technology to the larger public. We don't have excessive mark ups, it's just expensive to produce a quality core, as considerable dialog on this forum under other topics has shown. We produce quality, tested, ready to use products, for those people who just want to build a heater quickly, that will last and have it work right the 1st time.
How are these products unique ? What makes them better than one built at home ?
Including a link to the development of the design (by Peter van den Berg) vs. a standard rocket heater.
We have also published extensive data logs on temperatures, efficiency, and emissions on the blog site here. Data which is largely missing from the rocket heater world, but which we publish in the clear.
IMHO.... I have to agree with Sandy, no reason for hostility.
Things like this are the bedrock of our capitalist system, and if someone or some company can find a way to serve some aspect of a much under-served market, and make money doing it, then they are free to do so, they put their money where there mouth is, they take risks to develop the market. Who are we to say one way or the other what is right or wrong about it? By making a profit on development, they may better answer the needs of the market.
Many people around the world might see the benefit of and the need for rocket stoves, rocket mass heaters, etc., though not have the means, the skills, perhaps just not the interest in building their own, as many in the DIY community here have done. That they may buy a rocket stove from Dragon serves a public good for all of us.
My two cents. I'm a capitalist to the core! In capitalism we have commerce, jobs, and wealth generation. While I realize that much of the movement is about LESS - winding down everything - it doesn't have to be that way. It could just be a smarter way of doing things, being more harmonious, encouraging and capitalizing on nature's way rather than obstructing it.
Dale Hodgins : W.O.W., While I do think that your lifestyle and work ethic places you in a position where you can build a Rocket stove Mass Heater RMH,
for much less than I or most of Your Fellow Members, That is not the people who they are reaching out to!
If there were a more identifiable market for their product, indeed any market, Permies would be a presence there, and so would Dragon Heaters, they are only
trying to serve a small portion of the horde of people that we try to help everyday!
Until the day that we have thousands of people able to get a cast-able core sent to them for any money, I am glad that they are willing to carry the water !
We live in a society that pays lip-service to Capitalism, 'And the American Way' and buys Crap from 'Overseas'. The market place will determine of this is valued !
I hope that I might be taken seriously when I sign off - FOR THE GOOD OF THE CRAFTS ! Big AL
Success has a Thousand Fathers , Failure is an Orphan
Thank you for the information. I have read numerous posts regarding these products and rather than answering the question at hand, they link to the website. Many of the links may have been from other members. I don't keep track. I figured the $30 dollar thing might generate a response. That's a realistic figure for me since I only require fireclay and can scrounge the rest. It's not realistic for most. I never care too much about markup. I care what the final cost in my hands after shipping and taxes comes to, and how that compares to the cost of building something similar.
The fact that money is being earned, isn't my issue. I would sell my grandmother. I love money, and never part with it until it is clear that the product is the best I can get for that money. My Husqvarna chainsaw is a marvel of workmanship and functionality. A very similar looking device available at WalMart isn't worth a pinch of coon shit. With any popular technology, there will be many entrants to the marketplace. Some will have good useful products and some will quickly attempt to fill consumer demand with a product line. The only way for me to determine what is being offered, is to ask questions that get answered.
As I said in my edit, before any other comments came in, I did manage to find links to testing graphs. Do you have a figure expressed as a percentage for any of the units, that compares the total energy within a given quantity of wood, to the total energy retained within the home for a complete burn cycle ? I'd be happy with anything over 85%. This is a figure that people understand and the one most commonly withheld by makers of furnaces, wood stoves and other heating devices. Wood stove manufacturers have been dancing around that one for decades.
My other major concern with any product is durability. I wasn't able to determine how old the company is and how many burn cycles units have been put through.
How long have you been selling these products ?
Do you have a rough figure on how many homes are being heated with them ?
Do you have units that have stood up well, to thousands of burn cycles ? I suppose on newer products, this may not have been possible since it would take a few years. Are the refractory materials used, rated to survive thousands of burn cycles ?
Can you tell us the type of refractory used in the shippable cores, and link to some type of rating ? The only way I can compare apples to apples, is if I'm able to price out the raw materials.
When kits are bought, do you track them at all to see how many or what percentage result in a successful build ?
Have you set up any sort of long term durability study with your customer base, as a means of pushing future improvement and troubleshooting ?
Is there a blog where customers can communicate with you and one another about any problems ? Do you have deletion power for unwelcome input ?
Thank you, Dale ---------- The good news is that if you can sell me, you can sell anybody. I then turn into a free salesperson. I've told hundreds of people to stay away from cheap chainsaws and get a Husqvarna. We don't talk short term cost. Quality and durability are what matter.
Edit --- I just read things over and there was mention of hostility. Only a few people have ever been the recipients of hostile intent from me. None of them are on this forum. I always conduct hostilities privately, so that even my enemy isn't sure that it was me, unless I want them to be.
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