Anybody with experience coppicing American persimmons?

The American persimmon appears on lists of trees that tolerate coppicing, but being a slow-growing tree native to a region where coppicing forestry practices are rare, it doesn't seem to actually get coppiced very often. I'd like to hear from anybody who has coppiced (or pollarded - pollarding might make more sense in deer country) these trees. I'm particularly interested in finding out whether old trees will send up shoots from the stumps when cut, or whether it only works on younger trees.

I ask because I've got a surplus of male Persimmon trees, but they are mostly older trees in dubious condition. My thinking is that coppicing could give me a good supply of easy-to-reach leaves (to harvest for tea and medicinal purposes) without me having to strip them from my fruit-bearing trees. I'm hoping to start some seedling trees this spring, but I don't know how successful that will be and I want to use any successes as fruit trees or grafting stock for fruit trees. If I can rejuvenate an old male tree that's not doing much for me now, why not?

I have enough trees that I can afford to experiment even after leaving plenty to provide pollen for my female trees. So, as an experiment, I'm currently contemplating cutting one of the old male trees before its winter dormancy is gone (so, fairly soon). Anybody got any experience doing this? (Or, heck, speculative opinions, I'm easy.) What I'd really love to see are some photos of coppiced persimmons, if anybody can find any; I sure can't.

I have no experience with coppicing American persimmon, but I have noticed those around where I live will sprout new trees from their root systems.

I've cut sprouts to the ground where they came up in an inconvenient place and they would continue to sprout there for years afterward.

Given this, I would think that they would coppice well.



Question for you: How the heck do you tell male from female? I've started dozens of persimmon trees from seeds and planted them all over the yard- but they
all look alike to me.

Cris Bessette wrote:
Question for you: How the heck do you tell male from female? I've started dozens of persimmon trees from seeds and planted them all over the yard- but they all look alike to me.

Well, my understanding is that you can't tell until they flower. I'm going by this link:

Fruit, of course, is a dead give-away that you are looking at a female persimmon. Absence of fruit doesn’t necessarily mean a tree is a male. It could be a bad year for mast production, the tree might be in a location with poor resources (sunlight, soil nutrients and moisture), or it could just be an immature female that isn’t producing fruit yet. You can also safely “sex” a persimmon in spring, when the trees are bearing flowers, as each sex produces a distinct flower.

If you happen on a persimmon tree in the spring, check for flowers. You’ll find them on this spring’s new growth that is emerging from one-year-old limbs. The flowers form in the axils of the new growth – that’s the angle between a leafstalk and the branch the leaf is attached to (see the photo in the gallery below). Female flowers are slightly larger than males, and they are attached closer to the branch, because as the fruit forms and becomes heavy, a strong anchor to the branch will be necessary (again, more photos in the gallery). In contrast, male flowers dangle on a stem and almost appear like tiny bells (I promise I’m trying to keep this G-rated). Male flowers also have a “calyx” (the leaf-like cup that holds the flower) that is smaller than the flower. In females, the calyx is roughly equal in size to the flower. Finally, male flowers occasionally, but not always, form in clusters of two or more hanging from the same axil. Female flowers do not. If you see dangling persimmon flowers in a cluster of two or more, it’s a male tree.

Dan,  Did oyu find an answer to coppicing or pollarding an American Persimmon?

I accidentally knocked the top off of my male D. Virginiana last year, so since I knew nothing about them at the time I cut the rest off almost at the base. This year it's growing a new shoot from the stump. I would say that they handle coppicing fairly well. I am considering doing it to my female as well. Both trees were already on the property when I got it, so they're rather tall and spindly. I just want to make it more manageable.

I'm about to have experience with coppicing American persimmon, since my grandfather just cut down the persimmons and elderberry at my mom's place. Both of which I was hoping to propagate this year. Starting a bunch of seedlings off of the persimmon, but waiting to see if and how well it grows back, and if I'll either be able to dig up suckers or start a stool layer.

Mathew Trotter wrote:I'm about to have experience with coppicing American persimmon, since my grandfather just cut down the persimmons and elderberry at my mom's place. Both of which I was hoping to propagate this year. Starting a bunch of seedlings off of the persimmon, but waiting to see if and how well it grows back, and if I'll either be able to dig up suckers or start a stool layer.

You don't need to worry about the elderberry. That's actually one of the normal pruning methods. Cut it a few inches above the ground and let it all grow back. And the D. Virginiana should send up new shoots from either the roots or the stump. I'm hoping for new shoots on mine as well.

 I had a persimmon tree run over and broken off at the ground last spring after bud break. It sent out a shoot from the ground that is now about 5 ft. tall.
Also, I cut my elderberries off at ground level every fall. They grow back and get harvested every year.

Thomas Pickens wrote:
You don't need to worry about the elderberry. That's actually one of the normal pruning methods. Cut it a few inches above the ground and let it all grow back. And the D. Virginiana should send up new shoots from either the roots or the stump. I'm hoping for new shoots on mine as well.

Yeah. I was just hoping to get a few hundred cuttings this year. Have a bunch of wet places I think it'd be a good option for erosion control where I don't want willow. Plus, had a lot of people locally that wanted some, so I was expecting to have that as a source of at least a little bit of income.

So the results are finally in. Both of my trees came back just fine from the stumps, and my female also put up a bunch of suckers. I have kept one about 15 feet away from the original stump. I tipped the apical branches and did a bit of selective pruning in order to keep it clean, but I am more than happy with the results. There would have been much more vertical growth if I hadn't tipped the apical branches, which was exactly the point. This upcoming year I may be removing one of the central trunks and a few branches from this year, but it is definitely working.

Dan Boone wrote:The American persimmon appears on lists of trees that tolerate coppicing, but being a slow-growing tree native to a region where coppicing forestry practices are rare, it doesn't seem to actually get coppiced very often.  I'd like to hear from anybody who has coppiced (or pollarded - pollarding might make more sense in deer country) these trees.  I'm particularly interested in finding out whether old trees will send up shoots from the stumps when cut, or whether it only works on younger trees.  

I ask because I've got a surplus of male Persimmon trees, but they are mostly older trees in dubious condition.  My thinking is that coppicing could give me a good supply of easy-to-reach leaves (to harvest for tea and medicinal purposes) without me having to strip them from my fruit-bearing trees.   I'm hoping to start some seedling trees this spring, but I don't know how successful that will be and I want to use any successes as fruit trees or grafting stock for fruit trees.  If I can rejuvenate an old male tree that's not doing much for me now, why not?

I have enough trees that I can afford to experiment even after leaving plenty to provide pollen for my female trees.   So, as an experiment, I'm currently  contemplating cutting one of the old male trees before its winter dormancy is gone (so, fairly soon).   Anybody got any experience doing this?  (Or, heck, speculative opinions, I'm easy.)  What I'd really love to see are some photos of coppiced persimmons, if anybody can find any; I sure can't.

We had to cut down a 30 year old persimmon tree almost 4 mo ago. The stump now looks like photo attached and it is sending out shoots from the root system.

Mine have gotten quite large in the past year. I also have 3 new trees I'm nursing along from the same root system. They're growing in a little Grove, and one root extends over 100 yards up a slight hill and is putting out new growth as well. Next year they should bloom. I also have a nice male, but he isn't putting up many new stems anywhere but around the trunk.

Thomas Pickens:
Great info and thanks for the included photos! It's such a relief to know the persimmons are diehards. We have two that are so tall they are providing shade where we don't want it. But I've dreaded cutting them down. Is it okay to cut them this time of year or when is best time?

Dan Boone:
Your info was also great and I bought your digital book. It is a good read. I enjoyed the history, propagation techniques and the recipes. https://permies.com/t/126158/ebooks/Native-Persimmon-downloadable-ebook-reprint

Being an eastern transplant from the PNW I had never even seen a persimmon tree or fruit. And so far we've found 7 of them and I'm sure we'll find more.

The big daddy (well mama) is at least 2 foot across at the base and most likely responsible for the others we found. I was shocked when I looked up and saw fruit!

When they fully drop leaves and go dormant, you can cut them down. Leave about 4-6 inches of stump above the soil level. Your females will produce suckers at a distance from, and right around the trunk. I personally recommend selecting some at a decent distance from the stump, in addition to selecting a few suckers from as close to ground level around the stump. Backup in case the stump gets an infection. The male trees will only put out suckers in extremely close proximity to the stump. Just try to select the best ones. This may be different in the other two North American persimmon species groups, but I'm not sure. Each group has a different ploidy level, meaning they have different numbers of chromosomes and cannot interbreed. I have however heard that the different groups count as pollinators, but crossed seed will be stunted and atrophied.