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3 in 1 fruit tree planting..does it work?  RSS feed

 
Posts: 76
Location: Ontario zone 4b
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After serious contemplation and consideration I've finally concluded what kind of fruit trees i would like to plant in my little yard.  I'm currently growing several fruit trees from seed one of the fruit trees I'm growing is the American persimmon i love persimmon and find it quite tasty when ripe and also a rare and wonderful tree to look at. My only problem is the fact that these trees are diecious , having this in mind i can only tell the gender of the trees after three years. When planting i was considering densely planting these trees in 3s in almost a triangle and letting them grow to see if i get a female or two or possibly all males or all females if soo im able to hopefully weed out a male or have two females and a male either way im curious if this method will work. Any feed back on high density planting would be great if anyone has tried this with persimmon please let me know thank u.
 
pollinator
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Ive seen vids where bunching trees cause competition and quicker growth. Abc acres has a segment on it on YouTube. Makes sense to me. Plus All this buzz with microorganisms creating a symbiotic relationship at the roots....more roots equal larger area of soil thats shared in that relationship.
 
Jordan Johnston
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Love that video ...which is perfect because i can create some guild relationships with the sea berry i have inside. Lol i have a regular old suburban yard on a corner lot and I'm growing way to many fruit trees its ridiculous how much i got going. Apples pears seabuckthorn persimmon myrobalan cherry plum white mullberry. Its insanity i think its all a possibility if my wife doesnt mind the front yard looking like a jungle.but if not im thinking making some dense guilds with chop and drop edibles herbaceous ground cover and nitrogen fixation. Thanks for that info i appreciate it.
 
pollinator
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I've tried it three times and each time I regretted it.  I planted a couple of cherry trees that were needed for mutual pollination (Royal Lee and Minnie Royal) and despite aggressively pruning them, the one tree so overgrew the other that I eventually had to cut one down and replant it 10 feet away.  The same thing happened with a peach/necturine multi-plant guild: the peach couldn't compete and was basically out-competed even though it was on the south side and should have gotten the most sun.  Finally, I tried planting 3 asian pears in a single hole.  One tree thrived, the other two just limped along.

I can grow just about anything, and my fruit trees are the envy of the neighborhood, but the multiple trees in tight spacing thing has never worke me.  It requires constantly pruning the most aggressive tree and yet the other trees are still out-competed. 

But if you can get it to work, more power to you.
 
Jordan Johnston
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Location: Ontario zone 4b
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I understand your concern because the trees do need a good amount to grow. the normal  spacing is usually 6 to 10 with dwarf rootstock  but my trees  are from seed they will grow to full length so it gives me further restriction. I seen the 3 in method in action and the with dave wilson nursery he picks trees that grow to the same size as am i i am using all persimmon no different cultivars..he also knee high pollards his trees.  choosing trees that enjoys pruning also helps. Then there are a million other factors ive seen it work for dan at plant abundance and numerous others i was thinking of pairing them with a nitrogen fixer aswell. Im going to try it but if in a couple years i regret it ill be saying man i should have listened to you. Thanks for the info
 
pollinator
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
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If I was trying the 3 in 1 hole method, I think I would do some specific things to try and optimise conditions.

I would probably increase the size of the hole, likely to twice as large. I would plant them in a ring halfway between the edge and the centre of the hole, and I would plant a nitrogen-fixing bacteria host shrub in the centre, something that worked well with chop-and-drop.

I would rough up the edges of the hole, such that penetrating roots could more easily spread outside of it's bounds.

After planting, I would definitely plant any supportive guild plants that work well in that particular situation, and then I would mulch with woodchips to a depth of no less than three inches.

I would then apply a mushroom slurry. I usually like to employ culinary varieties, but in cases of adapting trees to local environment, I like to source my fungi from the environment, as close to the planting site and as close to a local analog to what I'm planting (fungi adapted to stone fruit should work for any other stone fruit) as possible.

One thing you could definitely try is an aerated compost extract. Look up some of Bryant Redhawk's soil threads for a how-to, but in short, certain plants prefer specific ratios of fungal to bacterial life in the soil. I know you will want both for fruit trees, and I think it should skew somewhat towards the fungal, but I am going to have to look it up and come back to verify. But making and applying a compost extract is one of the best ways to boost the soil life quickly, and that is one of the best ways to improve growing conditions across the board.

Sounds interesting, though. Please let us know what you decide, and how it goes. Pictures are always fun, too. In any case, keep us posted, and good luck.

-CK

 
garden master
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Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
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I second What Chris said and I have this tidbit for American Persimmon trees.

American Persimmon trees want to have rotting wood around them for their roots, without this rotting wood, the trees will develop slowly and take longer to bear fruit.
I have five persimmon trees and the one I removed the rotting wood from is severely stunted compared to the others that didn't have the rotting wood removed.
I have added more tree trunk materials around our persimmon trees now that they are old enough to fruit (seven years from seed sprout to first few fruits).

Redhawk
 
Jordan Johnston
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Location: Ontario zone 4b
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Amazing ...wrotting wood ill implement that i have a couple of dead aspen logs lying around would be perfect for them. I was also thinking of raising them slightly for some season extension soo burrying the wrotting wood underneath should do me some good. I appreciate the feedback. Love the amount of information i have never grown persimmon so it helps.
 
Jordan Johnston
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Location: Ontario zone 4b
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I also read a scholarly article about glomeromycota fungi trials with persimmon have had great success in growth rates. I need to attract or harvest some of this microhyzae for my persimmon roots so thanks chris and bryant ill be trying my hardest to keep them healthy.
 
Bryant RedHawk
garden master
Posts: 4785
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
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hau Jordan,  you don't have to bury the rotting wood, I just lay it around the root zone on the surface.
If you ever find one out in the woods you will notice that they love to sprout up next to a fallen tree.
Mine were apparently planted by Raccoons, who love the fruits, I have the Mother Tree too.

Redhawk
 
Jordan Johnston
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Location: Ontario zone 4b
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Nice ok perfect i can just border them
 
pollinator
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Just curious,but will a male tree take female grafts an vice versa?
 
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