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--- ABORTION ---  RSS feed

 
Dale Hodgins
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You knew it had to come up one day.

You're welcome.


I suppose this belongs in Social Justice only if we determine that a fetus is a future citizen. Have fun, and no name calling. I'm not even going to reveal my stance on this just yet. It's one you haven't heard before.

Eventually somebody will bring this guy into it so here's Everlast --- What it's like ---


Excerpt --- Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom who said he was in love
He said, "Don't worry about a thing, baby doll, I'm the man you've been dreamin' of."
But three months later he said he won't date her or return her call
And she sweared, "God damn if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls."
And then she heads for the clinic and she gets some static walkin' through the door.
They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner, and they call her a whore

[CHORUS]
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes
'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose
Then you really might know what it's like [4x]
 
Adam Klaus
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From a legal standpoint, abortion should be legal. It is a medical decision for the mother (and father). We should not restrict the choice of the individual in medical matters within the confines of their own bodies.

From a moral standpoint, it is not desirable. It is a painful choice, and a painful burden to abort a life. The individual is best not having an abortion in all but the most severe of circumstances.

So, I am pro-choice politically, yet anti-abortion personally.

How's that for pissing of everyone?
 
John Elliott
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For my two cents, I will recall the words of a wise man:

 
Landon Sunrich
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I too have one of those weird takes on this that generally ends up pissing everyone off. I was raised by people and in a community of people who I would consider very sexually permissive and extremely pro choice. I am less so. I am of the opinion that there are about a billion ways to enjoy yourself in the company of other individuals. Only one of these has even the opportunity of conception. Actions have consequences. If you're screwing you should at least know that there is a probability of pregnancy resulting. I feel individuals should be knowledgeable of this and base their decisions accordingly. What ever happened to getting to know a person? In my experience people today are (at least culturally) wired for all sex all the time. This is an adaptation that is no longer adventitious in my view.

I am in no way philosophically opposed to contraception. I would personally be a little skeptical of using hormones or other chemicals to radically alter my physiology. I think ideally pregnancy should be a choice. When it's not... Well I would be spending a good deal of time reflection on how that particular situation arose and whether sounder judgement was what was called for...

Ultimately though I am a man. I do not have to face the consequences head on - I could even choose to ignore them all together (and I am glad there is a legal system for dealing with people who make that choice). I would like to think that if the situation of an unplanned pregnancy arouse between me and a partner there would be a good deal of conversation about it.

But in the end:

ITS NONE OF MY FUCKING BUSINESS


Just my take.
 
Cj Sloane
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I always bring up Ron Paul in this context because his opposition is so inconsistent with his other views. He tries to reconcile his normal opposition to government interference with a story. Here's the short version of how he became "pro-life":

He was wandering around the hospital and wound up in an OR where a late term abortion had just happened. The fetus is alive and set aside to die.
OK we can all agree that's bad.

I think we can all agree that wouldn't happen today, yet abortion is legal.
So why did it happen when abortion was illegal?

I'm just speculating but there was probably an exception allowed if the life of the woman was in danger. If so, and let's say someone's 16 year old daughter got pregnant and let's say the father wanted it aborted, it probably would have taken several months to convince a psychiatrist to sign off on the fact that the woman's life was in danger. Why else would such a late term abortion happen if it was illegal?

But the main point of this story is that if Ron Paul could succeed in making abortion illegal, he would be re-creating the exact circumstance to ensure what he saw happens again! It's proof that laws often result in the opposite action than was intended.
 
Matu Collins
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Abortions happen whether they are legal or illegal, but when they are illegal they are significantly more dangerous. Just like when alcohol was illegal in the US organized crime profited, when abortion was illegal, unscrupulous people, often with little to no medical training, profited.

If we are talking about the social justice aspect of abortion, this is my primary concern. Vulnerable women being taken advantage of by unscrupulous characters, often being maimed or killed in the process.
 
Landon Sunrich
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I think CJ and Matu have just made some very good point and would like for clarification to say that I totally agree.

I also hear Tell that the people of Rome foraged and farmed an effective contraceptive. And that they farmed it out of existence. I know the women of the Amazon have a few go-toos growing in the back yard. Doctors and Hospitals should be well trained well supplied and well staffed and able to offer their best opinion and services to their patients for whatever reason brings them there.
 
Cj Sloane
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Roe v. Wade is a pretty interesting read, especially if you scroll down to section VI when they talk about the history of abortion starting with the Persian Empire.
 
R Scott
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I see abortion the same way I see big ag or big pharma--just a bad answer to a symptom of a bigger problem. Go ahead and not honor nature or your body, we'll make chemicals (or a procedure) to remove the consequences... On the surface, for a while.

The problem is much deeper. We no longer cherish life. I have seen the position women are put it because men no longer have honor. I feel for them. Once they are in that position, there are no neat and easy answers.

I cannot see the logic in saying abortion is legal but infanticide isn't. Or euthanasia for that matter. You either say murder is murder or you say the good of the many outweigh the good of the few or the one. I don't see a middle ground.

We have done the equivalent of clear-cutting an entire generation.

Kipling saw it 95 years ago:
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_of_the_Copybook_Headings

 
Jennifer Wadsworth
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Jennifer Wadsworth
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No. We do not get to legislate human bodies.

But let's say we DO decide to legislate human bodies, we should at least do it in an equitable fashion, right? Say, castrate rapists and perpetrators of incest. Or serial impregnators - you know, those guys who brag about how many kids they've fathered. Or just your average guy who fathers a kid unintentionally - like that 15 year old down the street who made a mistake. But we don't do that, do we?

No.

I've worked at a rape crisis center. I've lived in third world countries where men rape because then the women have to marry them or be shamed. It happens in the good ole USA too. Some of the things I've heard and seen would make your eyes bleed. I won't repeat them here because honestly just thinking of them is making me feel like I have to vomit.

And for all those women who do choose to take a pregnancy to term - we need to quit calling these kids "illegitimate". The children are here, ergo, they are "legitimate". And there better be some damn good social programs put in place to get these families the support they need.


 
Cj Sloane
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Oh man! Sarah Silverman did a riff off my favorite joke of all time!

3 women sitting around discussing when life begins.
The Catholic woman says, "conception."
The Protestant woman says, "birth."
And the Jewish woman says, "life begins when the cat dies and the kids go off to college."

So, I'll check in next fall, when my son goes to the only school he applied to (Culinary Institute of America) and my daughter does some woofing or ameriCorps or something entailing moving out - I hope.
 
Dale Hodgins
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