I love fruit. I really love never buying eggs or meat at the grocery store. Someday, I would love to stop buying fruit at the grocery store. To that end, I am planning on growing as many of my favorite fruits as I can. Alas, I have very limited experience with gardening as myself and everyone in my family are more livestock people. So I need some help (recommendations for classes or YouTubers to watch also welcome).
I’ve attached a map of the property divided into zones for explanation. For reference, I am in zone 4A, about 15-20” of annual precip. I’m *mostly* looking for help identifying which of the main species I plan to grow will thrive in which spot, however, I’m not limiting this to strictly species on my list of desired fruits. I plan to do some guilding as well, so helpful ideas for what to plant in the guild are also welcome, and if there’s a harvest of some sort from those plants, that’s great, but the top priority for the guild planting is support for my trees/shrubs.
I’m also doing this slowly, about 2-4 trees per year, for budget and time reasons.
The long list of species I would like to try is:
Apple, plum, cherry (I plan to try the hardy “romance series” from university of Saskatchewan), raspberry, strawberry, haskap, grape, hazelnut, and blackberry (variety selection help please…anyone has success with Doyle’s Thornless?).
Zone A will be the main “orchard” space. It is full sun except on the far south end which will receive some shade from the green shop, mostly in the morning. I believe it’s still considered “full sun” though going by the hours of sunlight received there in summer. It has a very moderate slope and clay soil. Our native soil also tends to be slightly alkaline. I’ve indicated on the map where the 4 apple trees, 2 plums, and 4 cherries will be located. Initially I had planned to build a fence at least on the east side, just past the trees’ mature diameter, and use it as a trellis for the grapes. However, I’m concerned that this may not be the best location for grapes, and it also may be too close to my trees to be planting them. The main goals for this space are 1) food production 2) windbreak, prevailing wind from the west. Although I want to be careful just how good of a windbreak I make so I don’t catch too much snow on the west side of the trees, right in a path that we occasionally need to drive. This zone can also be extended to the north along the west side of the house.
Zone B is the south side of a white heated shop. This soil should be the best drained. There is a small flat area right next to the shop and then a relatively steep drop. This space will receive significant extra moisture from the roof of the shop, and the area will warm much earlier in the spring and stay warmer later in fall due to the southern exposure, but it could get extremely hot there in the summer, so I’m not sure what would be best suited here. Maybe none of my main species of interest.
Zone C should function mainly as a windbreak. I’m thinking possibly of cottonwoods, with juneberry or hazelnut as a shrubby layer. I’m not sure if the hazelnut will thrive in my environment without some irrigation though, so perhaps that is best placed near the house where I can easily set up a water catchment? There is no option to irrigate in zone c.
Zones D and E are bonus zones. I’m not dead set on having any these plants there, but they are options if they are the perfect spot for something. Zone D would have some shade available from the afternoon sun via the grain bins. Zone E is the north side of the house so obviously the shadiest spot.
Thoughts on what to put where?
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Diagram of property
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South side of white shop. Wagon and dog house can be removed
Starting with fruit trees is honestly the best move if you love fruit, they just take a while to get going so the sooner they're in the ground the better. I'd pick your top 3 or 4 favourites and get those established first rather than planting everything at once. Easier to learn what works on your land without drowning in it.
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My suggestion is worry less, plan less, plant more. Too much planning limits your options and kills enthusiasm. Once growing, trees can always be removed, but no tree is always no tree.
If you buy fruit, plant all the seeds. My peach grove was founded on store-bought peaches. Just keep putting seeds out where you want trees and eventually you will have trees. And buy more trees. A dozen small trees cost about what one bigger tree costs.
Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Joao Winckler wrote:Starting with fruit trees is honestly the best move if you love fruit, they just take a while to get going so the sooner they're in the ground the better. I'd pick your top 3 or 4 favourites and get those established first rather than planting everything at once. Easier to learn what works on your land without drowning in it.
That’s my plan! I have two very little children running around and a lot of other irons in the fire. I don’t have time right now for massive harvests and time input. I’m planting two trees per year, currently I have my four apples and the two plums will likely be this year or next. I made a deal with my hubby on the budget…I don’t want a Mother’s Day gift, or an anniversary gift, or a birthday gift. Instead I want to go buy two trees. By the time anything is bearing, my kids will be a little more self sufficient, and I should be full time on the ranch instead of also working a full time job on top of everything else, and I’ll be able to handle the extra time input. Right now it’s very minimal time required.
I only ask now because I believe there’s a couple of free haskaps coming my way and I really don’t know where they will best thrive. So I figured I’d get some input on my other species of interest while I’m at it.
Thom Bri wrote:My suggestion is worry less, plan less, plant more. Too much planning limits your options and kills enthusiasm. Once growing, trees can always be removed, but no tree is always no tree.
If you buy fruit, plant all the seeds. My peach grove was founded on store-bought peaches. Just keep putting seeds out where you want trees and eventually you will have trees. And buy more trees. A dozen small trees cost about what one bigger tree costs.
Grapes don't mind some shade.
Unfortunately I don’t have loads of time to just be planting constantly. That’s why I don’t even do an annual garden right now. I’m biting off just a tiny bit each year so I don’t drown, and the planning and dreaming is half the fun!
From my reading I’m under the impression that grapes and maybe blackberries would enjoy the morning sun to help dry off the dew and prevent mildew, but a little shade in the afternoon helps keep the fruit protected from the intense afternoon sun. Do you agree? I had considered if the south side of the shop would be best for grapes since they would probably like the drainage of that soil better than the clay everywhere else, but perhaps that will be too intensely sunny for them if they like a little bit of shade.
If you are in zone 4a, I would imagine the Grapes would like all the Sun they can get... Blackberries too.
Here in my 7b spot, they both grow and fruit the best in full sun - for me.
They can both grow alright with some shade, though... Blackberries more than Grapes - in my experience.
And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'
-Kurt Vonnegut
Hi Linda,
It seems to me that you have thought about it enough to get started. Planting and trials have to start to obtain results. If results are bad, you have learned something and do better next time.
People that have responded, have given good advice. It is up to you to use it or not. You know best what you want and what you can handle. I am not familiar with your climate. I am in 7b, which should be warmer,
If it were my place, i would plant my grapes on the south side of the shop, thornless blackberry would do great on east side of it. I would try my luck with raspberries on the west side. I would make some structure on the side of the shop, to tie them onto. I would probably spread my hashkaps around the white shop as well, because I don't know too much about them. As an alternative, I might plant the hashkaps where you intendend the fence.
The south side of the white shop should be a good place for a future greenhouse as well,
if you can level the ground. Extra runoff ftom the roof, would be a great opportunity to irrigate the greenhouse.
The zones that you have no use for now, I would definitely use to plant trees from seeds. Planting trees from seeds is easy, and it takes them a long time to produce. I can imagine zone E for nut trees. They will be on the shady side of your house, but will grow tall, probably taller than your house, so they will catch enough sun anyway. I would first create a visible line. Sticks or poles with a wire will do, but maybe you don't even need that. I would create a compost row (not heap), to prepaire the soil. Every (other) day, I would walk up there and slide aside some of the compost to plant my apple cores and fruit kernals, and dump my kitchen waste on the other end of the row. I would plant the seeds/cores every 10cm. If I could get my hands on something special, like chestnuts, or hazels or another nut, I would plant them on the on the north side of this row, or intermingled. If I had only a few, I would space them wider and mark them with a stick. I would not bother much with it all and let nature do the work. By the time you have more time on your hands, you will have so much more experience and confidence and recipes. If the line gets you nice fruit, you can cut away what does not. If there is nothing nice, you have firewood, or your kids have a nice spot to play wild. In the mean time your nut trees are still growing in a healthy eco system.
Good luck with your dreams and plans, don't forget to have fun doing it all. Keep us posted.
"If you've never failed, you have not tried enough new things"
George and Nynke, thank you! I think I will plan to get the grapes by the shop as you suggested, especially given they are probably the least hardy in my zone and may benefit from the southern exposure/heat from the shop in the winter. Sadly the East side is where the shop door is so that space is not available for blackberries, but there is an existing bed on the west side that may be perfect for raspberries, it is bordered by railroad ties which may help contain or at least slow their spread. Raspberries do quite well here. I may try blackberries in a few spots and just see where they thrive best.
Nynke, I wish more nut trees were suitable for my location, but from what I’ve read I will be fortunate if I can even get hazelnuts and maybe a black walnut to survive and produce here. I think the black walnut requires a “protected location” to survive here. Luckily I think the local soil conservation district has them available, and if I pay attention I might be able to snag some little trees of several varieties at their $1 tree sale at the end of the season.
Grapes, raspberries and blackberries can stand 'some' shade. They will grow and produce some fruit. More sun means more fruit though.
My grapes are next to a mulberry, tall and wide. The grapes solved their problem by climbing the tree and producing their fruit 20 feet up! I still get more than we can use from the lower branches so it's all Okay with me.
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