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Spain or other sunny European locations for off-grid living?

 
Posts: 4
Location: Sweden
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Hello everyone,

I’m from Sweden and I’m researching long-term options for a future offgrid / low-overhead life somewhere in Europe.

Spain is currently one of the places I’m most interested in, mainly because of the stronger solar potential, longer growing season and better conditions for food production compared to Sweden. My main concern with Sweden is the lack of winter sunlight, which makes reliable offgrid electricity much harder unless you have a very rare property with usable year-round running water.

I’m still in the planning and research stage, so I’m trying to understand the reality before making any big decisions.

For people with experience in Spain or similar climates:

How difficult is it to get permits for simple rural/offgrid living, small structures, wells, rainwater systems, solar systems or renovation projects?

How serious are the drought and water issues in different regions?

Are there areas in Spain where water access is more reliable, but solar and growing conditions are still strong?

How do locals generally feel about foreigners, especially someone from Sweden, buying rural land and trying to live a quiet self-sufficient life?

Are there specific regions you would recommend or avoid?

And if Spain is not the best option, are there other European countries or regions you think are better for this kind of life?

I’m not looking for a fantasy escape. I’m trying to understand what is actually practical: water, permits, solar, soil, local acceptance, and long-term stability.

Any real experience or location-specific advice would be very appreciated.
 
out to pasture
Posts: 13234
Location: Portugal
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I'be been living in Portugal for a couple of decades so have a bit of experience in similar climates. I'll share a few thoughts about my experiences here in Portugal. I'm in the Castelo Branco region in case that helps.

Julian Kjellberg wrote:How difficult is it to get permits for simple rural/offgrid living, small structures, wells, rainwater systems, solar systems or renovation projects?


To get permits is not easy. If you get somewhere that's already registered as a dwelling you won't need permits, just go for it. Mostly if you're renovating without changing the external appearance you don't need permits. The registration system for properties is a bit weird and you really need legal advice to interpret the paperwork no matter the seller tries to tell you. Roughly if a property is completely rustica then it's unlikely you have rights to live there legally, though you are likely to get away with living there illegally, for now at least. If the property has a building registered as urbana, then generally you're good to go. Some places have a habitation license, which obviously means you can live there legally. Older properties might also be perfectly legal even without a habitation license. It's complex, but I'd strongly recommend getting a place that is legal to live in so you know you're safe. Don't believe the estate agent when he tells you there will be no problems. Invest in a lawyer unless you're prepared to risk it.

Loads of people just buy an acre and live on it without any care about permits. The locals are just beginning to get fed up of this as to be blunt many of them try to live wild and free in the middle of a forest and then set fire to the place because they have no clue about fire safety. The Portuguese fire fighters have recently announced that anyone living in unregistered places in the middle of a forest fire are on their own and resources won't be devoted to rescuing their property.

How serious are the drought and water issues in different regions?



The drought can be severe but if you get somewhere with a good well or water mine there will be no issues. Visit in August when the wells are at their lowest. They are all full in March so no point looking then. With a good water supply you can re-green most places, though it takes time. It's not so much the amount of water as the reliability of it so you can keep things alive during August.

How do locals generally feel about foreigners, especially someone from Sweden, buying rural land and trying to live a quiet self-sufficient life?
I’m not looking for a fantasy escape. I’m trying to understand what is actually practical: water, permits, solar, soil, local acceptance, and long-term stability.



When I moved here over twenty years ago we were welcomed with open arms as being one of the first immigrants in the whole area. These days there are so many immigrants that the question is almost irrelevant. Most of our closest neighbours are immigrants, from all over the place. Mostly the locals are still fine with immigrants though there are some undercurrents now that there are too many with too little clue of what they're doing. Just be responsible, learn about fire safety, don't have dogs wandering loose that kill people's livestock, learn the language, try to drive a legal vehicle rather than an illegal import, get to know your neighbours, that kind of thing. Mostly if you are known to be a good neighbour and look after the land you will be welcomed. Do find the nearest café and talk with the locals though. They will warn you gently if you are trying to buy somewhere with a known bad neighbour, who can make your life miserable.

For long-term stability, take the time to find somewhere with a bit of depth to the soil, with a good water supply, and the legal right to live there. Oh, and don't buy an old mill right next to a river - I've watched scary videos of people who have started to renovate them to live in with apparently no idea why the mill would always be lower down than the actual house. They flood! And the floods seem to be getting worse.

In short, it depends a little on your budget and how much you want to risk. I believe it's worth devoting a bit of time and a bit extra money to finding somewhere legal so you are safe.  Prices here are all over the place but rising rapidly. About five years ago my son bought a fully legal stone house to renovate, with an acre of land, for €22 500. Other people seem quite happy putting up a wooden cabin in the middle of the forest and assuming it won't burn and they won't get kicked out. Ultimately, it's your choice.

Good luck with your adventures!

 
Julian Kjellberg
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Location: Sweden
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Thank you, this was honestly one of the most grounded and useful replies I could have hoped for.

The August advice especially makes a lot of sense. I had already started realizing that spring visits can probably give a very misleading impression of water availability and general conditions.

Your point about legality also matches my instincts. I understand why some people gamble on “hidden” setups in forests, but long term I would much rather build something stable and legal than constantly worry about problems later.

The fire safety point is also something I completely understand. I think many people underestimate how serious Mediterranean fire conditions can become.

The Castelo Branco region actually sounds quite interesting to me. I’ll definitely spend more time researching Portugal alongside Spain.

Really appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed response.
 
gardener
Posts: 956
Location: Galicia, Spain zone 9a
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We live in rural Galicia, completely offgrid and apart from very bad weather weeks in winter, when we might need the generator now and again, survive on Solar, including charging our car. With careful planning it can be done. We collect rainwater for irrigation and for the Berkey, and have a well which supplies the house. The soil does need amending with compost but seems to grow enough for 50% of our needs - it would probably do more if we spent more time and effort. Our region, Lugo province, is the cheapest and most rural, but we are not clubbers so not an issue. You will need wellies and hideous aprons to fit in though.
Grow grapes, plant potatoes and brassica, raise a pig and some chickens, and you're off.

And nettles - find uses for nettles.
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Julian Kjellberg
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Location: Sweden
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Your reply honestly surprised me because Lugo/Galicia is almost exactly the area I had just started seriously looking into 😄

I hope you don’t mind me asking more questions, because it’s rare finding someone actually living this way in the exact kind of climate/region I’ve been researching.

I’m especially curious about the “real world” side of long term offgrid life there:

- What kind of solar/battery setup do you use?

- Roughly what did the system cost?

- How much battery storage do you have?

- Do you happen to know roughly how many kWh your system produces during different months of the year? Especially winter vs summer. I’m trying to get a realistic understanding of what daily life and electricity usage actually looks like there long term.

- During bad winter weather, how often do you realistically need the generator?

- What’s the longest period you’ve had with very poor solar production?

- Have you had major repairs or failures yet?

- Is there anything you wish you had designed differently for easier maintenance or future repairs?

- Did you renovate an existing house or build something yourself?

- What type of house works best in Galicia’s wet climate in your opinion?

- Do you have issues with mould or humidity indoors?

- Do you work remotely / have income online, or are you mostly self-sufficient now?

- How expensive does daily life realistically feel there?

- When you say you grow around 50% of your food, what are the main things you still buy regularly?

- Do your chickens/pig mostly live off your land, or do you still buy a noticeable amount of feed?

- How much land do you personally think is enough for a comfortable low-stress setup?

- How much water storage do you have, and how reliable has the well been over the years?

- How stable is internet access there?

- What ended up being much more expensive than expected?

- What has been the hardest part emotionally or practically about living there long term?

- And what turned out much easier than expected?

- What are the biggest beginner mistakes you see newcomers (if you’ve seen any others) make in Galicia?

Also, your comment about nettles made me smile because I’ve actually heard they’re incredibly useful for compost, mulch and nitrogen-rich fertilizer teas 😄

I’m trying to build a realistic picture of what daily life there actually looks like long term, not just the dream version of it.
 
Mandy Launchbury-Rainey
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Location: Galicia, Spain zone 9a
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[/What kind of solar/battery setup do you use?
Our system is an independent component system
Manufacturer is Victron - the go to for leisure craft and RVs
Pylontech for the batteries

- Roughly what did the system cost?
15k euros, but it would be considerably cheaper now

- How much battery storage do you have?
About 9kW but we could do with more to be honest - around double, as the price of batteries and panels has halved in the last 24 maths so we may add this year

- Do you happen to know roughly how many kWh your system produces during different months of the year? Especially winter vs summer. I’m trying to get a realistic understanding of what daily life and electricity usage actually looks like there long term.
We have 12 x 400 watt panels - how much we produce depends on how much we use and how clever we are at using it. We get around 5 hours of peak power in the summer, we have maxed at 35kW in the summer -
In the winter we might generate 10 - 12, but bad days and high use we resort to a generator, mainly in January, partly because there is an enormous tree which shades the panels when the sun is low.
Generally though, we turn stuff on (dishwasher, laundry, carcharger, dehumidifiers etc) when batteries are high, and turn stuff off if they are low.

- During bad winter weather, how often do you realistically need the generator?
Once a day for an hour keeps us going.  It is a 7kVa gen.

- What’s the longest period you’ve had with very poor solar production?
Probably only a week, which is why we have held off increasing the size of tbe system, as in the summer we can't  use all the power we could generate, even putting laundry on longest cycle etc.

- Have you had major repairs or failures yet?
We had a failure in one battery management system after 5 years, but we reported it to Pylontech and they replaced all 4 batteries free of charge.

- Is there anything you wish you had designed differently for easier maintenance or future repairs?
No - we spent a long time on research, only the increase in capacity that is limited by finance.
The Victron route facilitates add on capacity.

- Did you renovate an existing house or build something yourself?
We renovated an existing shell which means we have a modern setup, all by WiFi, in a 300 year old stone house.

- What type of house works best in Galicia’s wet climate in your opinion?
So long as you get a new roof, we'll maintained, and review drainage to the nth degree, anything works. It is best to look around the area you choose to live in, and look at the water table.

- Do you have issues with mould or humidity indoors?
Yes - we use dehumidifiers and BSK heat recovery ventilation system, underfloor heating and I do lengthy cooking stuff in our outdoor kitchen. After showers we use a Karcher to clean up, also used for cleaning condensation from windows in the mornings. It is controllable with a bit of common sense.
ALSO - we use a sports centre for swimming,gym, pilates ONLY 26 EUROS A MONTH FOR A RETIRED COUPLE - that means we shower there so no need for wet bathroom of constant hot water...

- Do you work remotely / have income online, or are you mostly self-sufficient now?
We live off pensions, but the cost of living here is sooooo low.

- How expensive does daily life realistically feel there?
It isn't.  You  can get a 3 course lunch with wine and coffee for 15 euros or less, not Michelin star but hey! A coffee is around 1.20, 0.50 for a tapa (3 of them and that's lunch or dinner after an evening activity), I think grid power is around 48 cents for a fast charge for the car, slow around 30 cents a kW

- When you say you grow around 50% of your food, what are the main things you still buy regularly?
Onions - can't grow them, celery, frozen peas and sweetcorn, nuts and dried fruit, peppers and tomatoes when none in the garden, but I do can a lot of ours, dried beans, because mine got bean weevils last year and I had to ditch the lot, fruit - birds nicked all our cherries.

- Do your chickens/pig mostly live off your land, or do you still buy a noticeable amount of feed?
I buy chicken feed but do add comfrey and peelings. I don't keep a pig as I have a friend who will give me a half and can also source a lamb for me.

- How much land do you personally think is enough for a comfortable low-stress setup?
We have 4000 m2 which is more than enough, only a 3rd is used for working - the rest is garden, a copse, and a field which we use for archery.

- How much water storage do you have, and how reliable has the well been over the years?
The well gets very low in long hot summers but we have survived. The next two years will tell as we are expecting very hot, dry summers. We have IBC totes which we get from local bodegas and they hold 1000 litres - we have 15 in all.

- How stable is internet access there?
We use starlink, which is 40 euros a month, fine for our needs

- What ended up being much more expensive than expected?
Nothing really - what we thought would cost, did. Maybe the floor, which was involved and pricey, as we live downstairs.  You should come and visit as it would be easier to show you. Come anyway!

- What has been the hardest part emotionally or practically about living there long term?
Language - Galego is spoken here and some people can be quite indignant if you can't speak it, despite lack of lessons or teachers in many areas.
Public transport in rural areas is aweful.
Planning permissions can take forever - get a good architect

- And what turned out much easier than expected?
The health system - once you're in everything is quite quick.
No traffic - delightful.

- What are the biggest beginner mistakes you see newcomers (if you’ve seen any others) make in Galicia?
They don't  visit in the winter to really check it out before committing.
People don't get an architect, then fall foul of the neighbours and the mayor when problems arise.
They think everything should be run like it does 'at home' rather than accepting the differences and going with the flow.
Not learning Spanish, which is probably one of the easiest languages to learn, even for idiots like us.

Also, your comment about nettles made me smile because I’ve actually heard they’re incredibly useful for compost, mulch and nitrogen-rich fertilizer teas 😄
Indeed they are, but I would defy anyone to use the amount we get here.

I’m trying to build a realistic picture of what daily life there actually looks like long term, not just the dream version of it.

Seriously - come and visit  - we have room for a tent (or 6) if our caravan is not being used by Workawayers!

 
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montana community seeking 20 people who are gardeners or want to be gardeners
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