• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ransom
  • Jay Angler
  • Timothy Norton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Anne Miller
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • M Ljin
gardeners:
  • Jim Garlits
  • thomas rubino
  • William Bronson

Life lessons

 
master steward
Posts: 8721
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3599
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There is a message here somewhere.  Many years ago I shared an office. My partner walked in one morning coffee in one hand and newspaper in another. The newspaper headline was about an administrator who was just convicted of a felony and was off to prison.  My office mate told me he had graduated his masters program with the guy.  In fact, there had been 30 students who graduated from that program … 17 were now in prison.


I just realized this begs a question.  Nope, my partner never went to prison.
 
steward and tree herder
Posts: 13787
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
7522
6
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The question I have is what subject were they studying?
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8721
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3599
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It was a masters program in public administration.  It is a chicken or egg situation; it is not uncommon to enter such a program after getting a promotion or appointment.

I once got a remarkable letter from a department head at the state level.  It read something to the effect “ it has come to my attention that there are rumors that I am a political appointee. I’ll have you know I have a Bachelors degree and 8 years of experience.”   It reminds me of a comment that I think Churchhill made, “ If you have to tell someone you are a lady, you aren’t.”


She didn’t hold her position very long.  
 
pollinator
Posts: 6174
Location: Bendigo , Australia
582
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John F, I love that definition from Churchill.
But I have to say the original story is mind bogling!
 
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6191
Location: Southern Illinois
1945
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Do you know if any of the remaining 13 went to prison as well?
 
Eric Hanson
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6191
Location: Southern Illinois
1945
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John,

I don’t know specifically, but “public administration“ sounds a lot like “curriculum and instruction” that we get in education.  These are degree programs that are designed for teachers to finish in two years while teaching.  They are not the same as a normal subject-area degree (for me, history).  Often, one of these programs is started when a “cohort” gets formed and they all start and finish together.

What I am getting at is that perhaps these people who went to prison did so not because of what they learned from the program, but because they were ambitious and collectively entered the master’s program together (maybe for a raise?).  But perhaps their illegal activities grew out of their social group, ambition and a willingness to take risks.  

Or some such variant.

Just a thought,


Eric
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8721
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3599
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Eric,

No idea as to what happened to the others.

Of course, the degree is one of the many clones and approximations of an MBA…..Healthcare Administration, Rehabilitation Administration, public Administration, etc. Normally the content varies by a course or two.

I have no idea as to the history of the individuals.  The case in question revolved around fraudulent billing. Normally, to prosecute successfully, a pattern has to be demonstrated.  

At the not for profit I operated, we were inspected, investigated, etc probably monthly by some entity or another. There are the routine inspections …Fire Marshall, state auditor, Health Dept, funding sources, etc. Then there are accreditation surveys.  Finally, there are the infinite complaints that someone gets ticked off and complains to everyone they can think off.  My favorite was when 3 of my staff and I were reported for crawling through someone’s bedroom window at 2:00 AM beating  them up and raping them.  Of course, they never called the police …never went to the hospital ….AND it was our building ….we had the key to it…so why go through a window.  

Anyway, with that level of oversight, fraudulent billing is high risk behavior.  Though, in the time period in question, it was not uncommon for computer programs to have some funky rounding problems in their financial programs that could add up over time. For the uninitiated, I am talking about 8k computers.
 
Eric Hanson
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6191
Location: Southern Illinois
1945
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I imagine that fraudulent billing is the easiest crime to start doing and get away with it—until one gets caught.


And as for the breaking in windows, well that fits the narrative perfectly—except that it is BS.


Reminds me of when I was going to college.  There was a 12 acre woods right in the middle of campus,  There were trails that wound through it and while you could go around, it added a hike.  I always went through.

But at night it was dark; very, very dark.  And of course many people associate dark with danger and scary people doing bad things.  There were constant rumors about attacks and muggings, etc.  And the problem with that story is that none of them ever happened.  The campus police were very clear that they had never had an actual assault, mugging, etc. ever happen.

And yet the rumor persists.  And there are people who want the woods bulldozed for safety.

But there was no danger.



Eric
 
Nancy Reading
steward and tree herder
Posts: 13787
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
7522
6
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

John F Dean wrote:Anyway, with that level of oversight, fraudulent billing is high risk behavior.  Though, in the time period in question, it was not uncommon for computer programs to have some funky rounding problems in their financial programs that could add up over time. For the uninitiated, I am talking about 8k computers.


Isn't there a film from the late '80s with that theme? Someone from accounts spots the 0.5c missing from rounding errors and manages to divert it .... when they found out they made him a director.
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8721
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3599
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Of course, there are various levels of billing fraud.  There is out and out theft where all aspects are phony. .  I was somewhat more sympathetic with revenge billing. That is a service delivered was refused funding due to unfortunate wording.  So, the CEO gets ticked off and submits a phony bill to make up for the loss. I found it is safer to do a legal work around. Early on as an administrator I had the funding for a service labeled “Attention and Compliance” rejected.  I resubmitted the billing under the heading “Receptive Language” and it was paid.  The same services. Different heading. No one cares what you do. They care about what you call it.
 
Eric Hanson
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6191
Location: Southern Illinois
1945
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Nancy,

The movie was Superman III, a truly regrettable movie.  The half-cent rounding was meant as a sort of black comedy that flopped.  

In that movie we get to see Superman sit at a bar and get drunk while flicking peanuts and turning them into bullets.

Regrettable



Eric
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 6174
Location: Bendigo , Australia
582
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John F, that is an amazing situation.
If the account submitted referred to an order for that service, would it have worked out being paid the first time?
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8721
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3599
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John C,

No idea.   Much depends upon the intellect and attitude of the person on the funders end… which is often the state. I learned quickly to have good relationships with people on the inside.  

In my later years I would have other CEOs amazed I could get through on one phone call when it would take them weeks of repeated calls.  Of course these same people would brag about how they cussed out various officials.   Now, does it take that much thought to ask yourself if the official knows they will be cussed out when they call you back …why would they make the call?  And, when you are caught making an honest error, do you really expect them to charge in to rescue you?  
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8721
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3599
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi John C.

As it turned out, the person at the first level of review has one job …. They have a list of approved services.  If you call your service one of those listed… you clear the first level.  Of course, I got me a copy of the list as soon as I realized it existed.

In re-reading this, I need to stress …
At the time, the name of the service had to be exactly how it was worded on the reviewers guide.  
 
Why am I so drawn to cherry pie? I can't seem to stop. Save me tiny ad!
Fed up of Silicon Valley Social Media? Join Retalk, the place of great conversation
http://retalk.com
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic