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Tree ID help prerequisite to Hugelkultur

 
Jason Bagnall
Posts: 10
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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Greetings permies!

Long time lurker, first time post-er.

I really appreciate all that this community has to offer, and hope that I can contribute meaningfully in the future.

In any case, I've been listening to "The Duke's" podcasts and gather that allopathic considerations are important when choosing
Hugelkultur wood. As this will be my first Hugel-Bed (and will be laboring by hand, alone) I'd like to get it "right" the first time.

So, hopefully some kind soul happens upon this post and recognizes the tree species in question.

Thanks in advance,

-Jason

p.s. disclaimer: I did look for threads involving tree ID resources, in addition to reading my extension offices' .pdf regarding my local tree species (nothing jumped out at me).

that document is here:

http://www.oakgov.com/msu/Documents/publications/e2332_id_trees.pdf

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Thorns?
 
Jason Bagnall
Posts: 10
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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The limb I felled for the presumptive Hugelkultur
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Don't need no stinkin power tools
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The cherry tree this "branch" is leaning on is ~25'
 
Miles Flansburg
steward
Posts: 3658
Location: Zones 2-4 Wyoming and 4-5 Colorado
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bee books forest garden fungi greening the desert hugelkultur
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Howdy Jason, welcome to permies!

Have you noticed any flowers or seeds on this tree?
 
Jason Bagnall
Posts: 10
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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Greetings Miles,

Thanks for the welcome! I went out this morning and scoured the area for seeds/flowers/pods etc. and came up empty.
Given the time of year, I'd say that either it doesn't produce any, it's an very late bloomer, or they're extremely tasty to
the local fauna (searched through the underbrush for remnants and nadda).

If it helps, the tree is a prolific sap producer, and it smells a bit funky. Hopefully that's not a bad sign.

-Jason
 
Stephen Layne
Posts: 24
Location: NE Ga, Zone 7b/8a
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The mystery tree looks very much like what we called a Chinese elm that grew in my parent's yard in southeast Iowa. It also had dark heartwood, oozing funky smelling sap, and the same size, shape, and pattern of leaves. It looks like old fruiting bodies stuck to the pavement in your second photo. Do you notice a lot of disk like "seeds" drifting around in the spring? It should be fine for a hugel, as far as I know.
 
Stephen Layne
Posts: 24
Location: NE Ga, Zone 7b/8a
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Here is a link to a description of a Siberian elm, which is what I think you have, or perhaps a closely related species. http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/trees/handbook/th-3-117.pdf http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/trees/handbook/th-3-117.pdf
 
Jason Bagnall
Posts: 10
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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Hey Stephen,

Thanks for the great reply. Looking at the document you posted it certainly seems I have a species of elm, and given that I don't see any counter-indications (compared to my observation) listed in the data sheet, I'd say Siberian is a winner!

Given this:

http://warnell.forestry.uga.edu/SERVICE/LIBRARY/index.php3?docID=160&docHistory%5B%5D=2

It seems American elms have considerable allopathic effect,
and Chinese and European White elms have moderate effect.

though this would seem to indicate the leaf litter (of the Siberian Elm) has considerable allopathic effects:

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/256504650_Allelopathic_potential_of_invasive_Ulmus_pumila_on_understory_plant_species

Oh bother, now I'm not sure what to do re. Hugelkultur...

ps the "fruiting bodies" you see are actually a part of the texture of the table the leafs are sitting on.
 
Jason Bagnall
Posts: 10
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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A person in this thread seems to have had success using thus type of elm in hugelkultur, I'll pm him, and ask if he would mind providing an update here, or in the original post.

http://www.permies.com/t/28547/hugelkultur/Siberian-Elm-Hugelkulture
http://www.permies.com/t/28581/fungi/Fungi-breaking-allelopathic-substances-Siberian
 
Dave Lodge
Posts: 93
Location: New England
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Yeah I would just go for it and plant with tolerant plants the first year. After fungi sets up, it shouldn't leach and keeps the chemicals under control. Fungi was noted in Jordan for blocking salt uptake from the soils.
 
Jason Bagnall
Posts: 10
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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Thanks Dave,

Per that post I'm thinking I'll "seed" the bed with some sort of fungal inoculation per http://www.fieldforest.net/ .
I had planned on only planting some sort of green manure seed mix this growing season (if for no other reason then it's
almost August).

-Jason
 
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