Rocket Mass Heater Vs Kachelofen

Scott Weinberg wrote:I was curious how the exterior veneer/facade/facing of these glossy tiles are attached?  This leads to the second question of how all this expands and contracts with the various temps found with any mass type of stove. I personally use silicon (there are many types) but  many of  these stoves have been built long before silicone came along.

I recommend to start with:

Tiled Kuznetsov heater building

Kachels are not flat tiles/veneer, but structural, refractory material, around 50 mm deep, glazed on the face.
They are laid with 1-2 mm clay mortar joints and connected with metal ties horizontally and vertically. No modern synthetics are needed. Later they are filled with clay mortar or with thin firebricks.
The bell could be built just from kachels.

Scott Weinberg wrote:
I was curious how the exterior veneer/facade/facing of these glossy tiles are attached?  This leads to the second question of how all this expands and contracts with the various temps found with any mass type of stove. I personally use silicon (there are many types) but  many of  these stoves have been built long before silicone came along.

Just curious

Here’s a video of a Kachelofen build by Jessica Steinhäuser and Mario Zauner that shows how the wire ties hold both the Kacheln and the brick in place against thermal expansion/contraction.

At 3:31, as Mario (the Hafner) is showing the “chamberbox where the wood will burn” — you can see the “wire” (spring-clips) which hold the Kacheln in place in allow for contraction and expansion of the stove, ensuring that gaps do not open between the tiles. (The wire clips holding the Kacheln are installed on the inside vertical face of each tile’s box-like brace (seen as horizontal lines inside the unfinished firebox area) and these wires are buried in the fireclay [acting as grout or mortar between each tile] — and between the firebrick interior and the Kacheln exterior.

A moment later, at 4:03, Jessica also shows how the firebricks themselves also have holes drilled into their tops and the firebrick have similar spring-clip wires installed on the horizontal faces between courses (where they’re not exposed to the flame path.) This is somewhat similar to American masonry brick ties using corrugated sheet steel — except that the firebrick wires are installed into holes in the tops of each brick to better hold with thermal expansion and contraction.

The german word that you are looking for is "Gasschlitz". Literal translation is Gas slot.
I am a Kachelofen builder here in Canada. To this day I have designed, made the Kacheln and have installed 54 Kachelöfen.
I was successful in getting permits for the Kachelofen. Kachelofen falls under the ASTM 1602. Which yes is the American standart
for solid fuel burning, however with help of Architect we can apply for " Application for Alternative Solution" .
The Kachelofen is viewed a s"solid fuel burning appliance" similar to a manufactured wood stove for the purpose of
demonstrating compliance with the Ontario Building Code.

Scott Weinberg wrote:

Cristobal Cristo wrote:Kachelofen heaters can be good, bad or between.  

If you want to see gorgeous kachels, please check the galleries of this manufacturer.
The heaters were built by various builders so they may have different firebox designs and efficiencies:

Kafel-Kar kachels

There some really great looking stoves in the galleries. I was curious how the exterior veneer/facade/facing of these glossy tiles are attached?  This leads to the second question of how all this expands and contracts with the various temps found with any mass type of stove. I personally use silicon (there are many types) but  many of  these stoves have been built long before silicone came along.

Just curious

The "veneer" are actually not flat tiles but glazed hollow bricks called Kacheln. When we install Kachelofen we work from the outside in. Meaning we set the Kacheln first, two rows with lime and sand. Then we wire with special wire called Hafnerdraht  the Kacheln to each other and then we start building the firebox. This ensures that the Kachelofen can expand and contract.  In addition we put in the corners of the Kachelofen some cardboard to make sure there is some space for the Schamotte to expand. I am new to this forum and excited to see more and more interest in Masonry Heaters/ rocket stoves and Kachelöfen. I am a member/board member of the Masonry Heater Association of North America. Any one interested in Masonry Heaters, Rocket stove should check out the annual conference in North Carolina coming up this April. It is a one week sharing of information and teaching/ workshops of all kinds of stoves. https://www.mha-net.org
I have been a member for the last 15 years. If you like to check out my work, you can see it http://shko.ca and on instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/kachelofenart/

Welcome to Permies, Jessica! We are excited to have a genuine Kachelofen builder here.

Jessica Steinhauser wrote:

The "veneer" are actually not flat tiles but glazed hollow bricks called Kacheln. When we install Kachelofen we work from the outside in. Meaning we set the Kacheln first, two rows with lime and sand. Then we wire with special wire called Hafnerdraht  the Kacheln to each other and then we start building the firebox. This ensures that the Kachelofen can expand and contract.  In addition we put in the corners of the Kachelofen some cardboard to make sure there is some space for the Schamotte to expand. I am new to this forum and excited to see more and more interest in Masonry Heaters/ rocket stoves and Kachelöfen. I am a member/board member of the Masonry Heater Association of North America. Any one interested in Masonry Heaters, Rocket stove should check out the annual conference in North Carolina coming up this April. It is a one week sharing of information and teaching/ workshops of all kinds of stoves. https://www.mha-net.org
I have been a member for the last 15 years. If you like to check out my work, you can see it http://shko.ca and on instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/kachelofenart/

if am reading this right? You make the outside first, and then work your way in?   So when the shape is made, then you work on the firebox?

How do you get inside to do this work?   by doing this from outside in, how does this differ from building inside going out with proper expansion gaps.

 I am just questioning this, they are great looking stoves, (from the photos I have seen)  I haven't done Instagram, nor know how to do it.. so am just asking.

Jessica Steinhauser wrote:

Scott Weinberg wrote:

Cristobal Cristo wrote:Kachelofen heaters can be good, bad or between.  

If you want to see gorgeous kachels, please check the galleries of this manufacturer.
The heaters were built by various builders so they may have different firebox designs and efficiencies:

Kafel-Kar kachels

There some really great looking stoves in the galleries. I was curious how the exterior veneer/facade/facing of these glossy tiles are attached?  This leads to the second question of how all this expands and contracts with the various temps found with any mass type of stove. I personally use silicon (there are many types) but  many of  these stoves have been built long before silicone came along.

Just curious

The "veneer" are actually not flat tiles but glazed hollow bricks called Kacheln. When we install Kachelofen we work from the outside in. Meaning we set the Kacheln first, two rows with lime and sand. Then we wire with special wire called Hafnerdraht  the Kacheln to each other and then we start building the firebox. This ensures that the Kachelofen can expand and contract.  In addition we put in the corners of the Kachelofen some cardboard to make sure there is some space for the Schamotte to expand. I am new to this forum and excited to see more and more interest in Masonry Heaters/ rocket stoves and Kachelöfen. I am a member/board member of the Masonry Heater Association of North America. Any one interested in Masonry Heaters, Rocket stove should check out the annual conference in North Carolina coming up this April. It is a one week sharing of information and teaching/ workshops of all kinds of stoves. https://www.mha-net.org
I have been a member for the last 15 years. If you like to check out my work, you can see it http://shko.ca and on instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/kachelofenart/

Here is more information on the MHA annual conference:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C2YdZnPR2wE/