The Big thread of Tiny Stoves

I really like that Sven saw!! That would be a great addition, for the stove.

I know this doesn't directly answer your question and I don't really know how cold we're talking but...

I like the vapour barrier in the sleeping bag option.

That would allow you to stay in the truck and so you would be much easier to find if someone was searching for you.

I'm curious about how much heat these Diy hand warmers would make. The process is simply accelerated rusting which is exothermic. While that's a one shot process, this is for emergencies.

You could make up the bags with iron fillings, salt and sawdust and just add water when you need the heat.

James Alun wrote:I like the vapour barrier in the sleeping bag option.

I haven't (yet) used a vapor barrier in a sleeping bag.  In fact, I haven't done much winter camping since my early- to mid-twenties.  When I got married, there was a ready-made family included - 2 kids, 2 cats, a dog, etc. - so I had to make some adjustments to my lifestyle on the quick.  However, I have used plastic bags as vapor barriers in my pack boots (maple syrup bags are quite tough, relatively cheap in season, and about the right size, but plastic shopping bags r bread bags will work, too).  I currently have a pair of North Slope grade Baffins for cold weather.  I am a sweaty feet kind of guy (perhaps TMI, but there it is), so keeping the liners of my pack boots dry - especially if I am going to be out for a protracted period of time - can be a serious concern.  If you do this, you'll still need socks (I like thinner wool-blend sorts) inside the vapor barrier, and you'll need spares, as well, which can likely be dried inside of your jacket, else you'll have foot troubles.  This is functionally similar to the US Army's Bunny and Mickey Mouse boots, which encapsulated layers of wool felt between skins of rubber, inner and outer. Sock swapping was a necessity with these, also.  A friend of mine did his arctic training in Alaska, at temperatures as low as -65F (about -54C), while wearing Bunny boots.  His feet remained undamaged throughout, but sock swapping was key to the effort.

Stephenson's Warmlite has been a vigorous proponent of vapor barriers for sleeping bags and boots for many years, using their "fuzzy stuff", some sort of plastic with a short nap on one side, probably not unlike the material from which the higher class air mattresses (sometimes marketed as "air beds") are made.  Google Warmlite - if you dare!  The company was founded by naturists, and their catalogs and website have historically reflected this, with lithe and scarcely nubile young women modeling nothing but the article of clothing in question.  Even though they reputedly make good gear - including an arctic grade sleeping bag system and 4-season mountaineering tents - I have never ordered from them because I have been leery of the repercussions if I were to receive one of their risque print catalogs in the mail.  One of the aluminized mylar "survival blankets" or any other sheet of lightweight plastic drop cloth might do the trick as a bag liner.  The mylar is pretty tough, yet flexible, if crinkly.  Polyethylene painter's drop cloths from the hardware store will be a bit fragile and easily torn and punctured unless in the heavier thicknesses (6mil is reasonably robust).

Jerry Kobalenko, author of "Horizontal Everest" and fairly well-known Canadian arctic photographer and sleuth, following the notes of the old arctic explorers to relocate their camps in "spring" camping expeditions around Ellesmere Island (temps are often around -50F/-45C over night), is a big proponent of the Stephenson vapor barrier bag system.  His gear blog explains his approach, as does the book.
http://jerrykobalenko.com/gear.htm

The alternatives are either to have a hot tent setup, and be able to dry out your gear each night, which is what I have been suggesting, or on the other hand to use an insulation which purportedly doesn't retain water and will maintain its loft and insulative qualities as long as it's not actually submerged, which is what Jerry Wigutow of Wiggy's fame advocates and sells in his Lamilite products (parkas, overalls and sleeping bags).
https://www.wiggys.com/why-lamilite
The best print resource for the hot tenting approach of which I am aware is "The Snow Walker's Companion", by Conover and Conover.

Since Carla has emphasized that she is first cost sensitive, the homemade tarp tent and woodstove seem to be the DIY-able and budget friendly approach, though I'll admit that a vapor liner for a good down bag might be within reach by haunting REI Resupply or CL and FB Marketplace or local equivalent.

James Alun wrote:I'm curious about how much heat these Diy hand warmers would make. The process is simply accelerated rusting which is exothermic. While that's a one shot process, this is for emergencies.

You could make up the bags with iron fillings, salt and sawdust and just add water when you need the heat.

My wife is a big fan of the commercial version - locally the "Hot Hands" brand is available.  The commercial items can also be used as oxygen absorbers when vacuum packing dry goods for long term storage.  They are quite inexpensive in season in my neck of the woods.

Carla Burke wrote:I really like that Sven saw!! That would be a great addition, for the stove.

Yes, the Sven saws are a classic.

But, the acute angle of the assembled saw severely limits the size of branches which can be efficiently processed to stove length.  I've mostly carried mine while backpacking and canoe camping, but I think the traditional (homemade) buck saw is a better solution in the event, since the ends of the frame are nearly perpendicular to the blade.  Thus, the limitation of diameter of wood which can be efficiently cut becomes the physical size of the frame (and length of the blade), rather than the geometric shape of it.  But, the Sven saws are cute.

For a homemade buck saw, a Bahco bow saw replacement blade with induction hardened teeth from your local hardware store, some salvaged pallet wood, a couple of clevis pins, recycled framing nails or found screws, and you're in business.  Other than the cost of the blade, it's mostly just time, and will result in a better saw, more fit for purpose.  If I could advise my younger self, I'd tell him to save his paper boy money by skipping the Sven saw and building his own.

On edit: As I recall, it was Mors Kochanski who advocated for keeping a bow saw blade inside of one's belt.  The blade could be fished out when needed, and a frame quickly assembled from branches (using one's Mora Kniv and a bit of cordage).  None of my belts are suited to this, and I'm too skinny to manage more than a 24" blade; even a 30" would be pushing it, by the time room is made for the buckle, keeper, etc.

Somewhere, I have a "Pocket Chainsaw" around, too.  It coils up into a tin, and can be rigged as a buck saw, as well as looped around a branch to cut from three sides at once.  I haven't found it to be particularly good as a saw, though this could be operator error, or it may need a bit of sharpening.  But, it does pack extremely small, and is much more durable than the cheap wire "survival saws" commonly seen in the camping section of the Big Box stores.
https://supremeprod.com/pocket-chain-saw/
It can be handy for limbing a tree, by throwing a line of the limb and then pulling the saw up, though preventing green branches from tearing the bark can be difficult, since it's not easy to make a good undercut if the branch is high up.

Carla -

This page has the run down on many styles of conical windscreens, mostly for alcohol burners (homemade or otherwise), as well as a wood burning version:
https://zenstoves.net/PotStands-Conical.htm

I have the complete webpage saved off and ZIPped on my terrabyte drive.  I can post it as an attachment if you like; just ask.  Then, you should be able to unZIP it and open the saved webpage with a web browser without being connected to the internet.

There are several javascripts referenced by this page.  One of them ("Captain Paranoia's") can be used to generate printable templates to cut your own "Caldera Cones".  The templates are postscript files, which are a very similar format to a PDF, but are basically printer files.

This webpage also has links to about a bazillion patents and designs (that's an engineering estimate!).

I'm still looking for the online writeup from a guy who made a modern day Sibley from shim stock.  It was very much like the original Civil War era version, and he seemed to have been pretty happy with it as a heating appliance, though they won't be much as a cookstove.  I'll keep looking.

Seek Outside used to offer a "Sibling" stove, which was their take on a Sibley, but they no longer list it on their website, so I'm guessing it wasn't a hot seller.  They have several of the box stove pattern held together with a bunch of fiddly fasteners - not my idea of a good time with half frozen fingers in deep snow, but to each his own.

Here's a link to a review of the Seek Outside Big SIbling on the Backpacking Light forum:
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/84099/

Here's a description of a homemade Big Sibling stove on the Rokslide forum, with a bottom (somewhat less risk of starting a forest fire, and maybe required in areas where open burning is forbidden):
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/my-take-on-the-so-big-sibling-sibley-style-tent-stove.257530/
But, this isn't the homemade Sibley I am remembering, which had an open bottom, just like the original, though I'll keep looking.  As I said, these aren't the best for cooking, but are pretty simple to DIY and are more efficient and safer than an open fire inside of a combustible/meltable tent.

On edit -
Here's a build on Rokslide:
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/looking-to-build-a-sibling-stove-truncated-cone.43120/
Not exactly replete with details, but at least something to go on.  The one I'm remembering (rightly or wrongly), the guy did multiple test burns in his back yard, with some adjustments.  His door was slung around the body of the stove on a piece of fine stranded wire - picture hanging wire or uncoated fishing leader or some such.  But, can I find it?

Here's a detailed review of the NLA Big Sibling from SO, which shows quite a lot of detail:
https://bedrockandparadox.com/2014/01/22/seek-outside-big-sibling-stove-review/
Definitely minimalist.

Carla -

I should probably point out that, even though most of these lightweight and ultralight commercial wood stoves are made from stainless or titanium shim stock, galvanized roll flashing will work for prototyping or on a budget.  Don't try to use aluminum flashing, though - it will oxidize, melt or both at proper wood burning temperatures.  So, if you can find thin stainless sheet material, great.  But, if not, scrounging (or failing that, buying) some galvanized flashing is a workable approach.

Galvanized steel roll flashing will be much cheaper at full retail prices than fancy shim stock, but will incur both weight and durability penalties.  The weight penalty is mostly because you can get shim stock in thicknesses from 0.004" to about 0.010" thick, whereas the galvanized flashing in my hardware store is nearer to 0.020" thick.  Titanium is also less dense than steel.  Regarding corrosion, 300-series stainless and titanium are quite corrosion resistant at typical wood burning stove temperatures (but not rocket stove temps!), but the galvanized steel will only be slightly better than bare steel after the first few fires.

To this last point, the first burn or two should be done outside to burn off the galvanized coating.  Zinc toxicity is unpleasant though rarely truly dangerous.  So, do some test burns outside where there is plenty of ventilation if you use galvanized flashing.

Kevin

Here's a video from a fellow who made one of the lightweight tipi style tents "from scratch":


I am unacquainted with the supplier he mentions.  Ripstop by the Roll often has good prices on "adventure" yard goods, though.
https://ripstopbytheroll.com

A cheapish stove jack material is the woven fiberglass plumber's blanket, used to protect the surroundings when sweating copper pipe fittings together.  That can be sewn in.  A piece of thin sheet metal (flashing or shim stock) will also work, but may be a little bit heavier, and won't pack quite as nicely.  It will need some kind of a pocket to slide into.

On edit: I did track down the vendor this fellow used.  They offer pre-made stove jacks for less than what I recently paid for a fiberglass plumber's blanket from my local hardware store.
https://www.bearpawwildernessdesigns.com/product-page/standard-stove-jacks
Admittedly, the plumber's blanket would make at least 2 stove jacks, but would also need some high-temp chimney silicone to seal the edges of the stovepipe hole or X to prevent fraying.  And maybe some Kevlar thread, too.  Not saying DIY isn't worth it (you'll learn something, at the very least, for the cost of admission), but this price point is fairly attractive.

It comes to mind that a good source of free stainless sheet is a discarded outdoor grille. They will often have a stainless cover, or stainless cabinet doors. A little work and a good pair of tinsnips will get you enough material for a couple-few projects.

Carla -

Here's one more video of a DIY fold-flat stove (from a Newfie!):


Kevin

Note: edited to embed video (doh!).

Thanks, Kevin! I'll try to watch it, soon. Right now, kidding season started with a preemie, so between taking care of her, her mom (who struggled and is now healing), the 6 month old puppy & the 2 grown dogs who all want to play with the baby goat in the house, and all the other critters outside - I barely have time to read half the posts I normally do. 🤣 But, I will get to it!

Carla -

It's getting on toward stove season again, at least up here in the north country.  It's been a very warm September, but I know we'll have snow in the air soon enough.  So, maybe it's time to refresh this topic.

Regarding triangular section collapsible stoves (of the style once built by Wyoming Lost and Found - that was indeed the name of the company, in Greybull, WY), I did spot this video:

I'd want a different chimney attachment method than he shows, and as I had mentioned up thread, I am not a big fan of having a bunch of loose pieces, of which collection some critical bit can go missing at the least opportune time.  However, as an example of the general layout of a triangular stove, this is representative.

Also, his chimney diameter is quite small.  To be fair, 2-1/2" diameter (63mm) is not uncommon in the very small commercial pack stoves, but 3" and 4" pipe hardware is more commonly available (at least here in the US).  Spark arrestors, and lightweight damper plates, for example, and "Charlie Noble" rain caps.  I have a collection of damper plates, scavenged from junk shops and garage sales, and I am fairly certain I have a 3" cast iron damper plate, and do have a 4" damper.  Other bits and bobs for 3" and 4" are available as pellet stove parts.

I now have a roll of 24" wide galvanized flashing (actually bought for flashing an eave, but there will be plenty left over), so I am hoping to get something knocked together as a "Mark 1, Mod 0" prototype pack-flat tent stove within the next few weeks.  Though there are lots of other jobs to get done before the snow is knee deep on the ground, too.  So, if I do get to that project, I'll post something.

I was also reading a couple of Warren Miller's books on camping (he was an editor at Field and Stream magazine, starting before WWI), in which he has a surprising amount to say about light weight heated tents of various sorts, and some on tent stoves, too.  In particular, "Camp Craft" (1915) and "Camping Out" (1918), scans of both of which books can be downloaded from Archive.  He was using lightweight cotton cloth such as galatea or cambric, chemically waterproofed or waxed to help it shed water.  I've been eyeing up some "downproof" cotton ticking, which should be very tightly woven but still light weight, though I haven't yet taken the plunge.  One of his preferred designs for cold weather camping is not unlike my half shelter pup tent (which is honestly quite heavy, already), to which I would like to add a button-on wall skirt to give a bit more head room.  There was an article in Boy's Life magazine in the 1950s showing a similar conversion.  I'll attach the article, on edit.

Hi, Jesse! I actually have used a camp stove in the kitchen before - for a couple of years, to be frank. There was no cutting off the stove top to fit it in, though, as it was a glass top one. Eventually, we replaced it with another coil-topped stove, but we still keep the camp stove just outside the kitchen door, in the garage, in case of power outages. Our house has a very open design with cathedral ceilings and great airflow, and is not a small house, so the short times needed for typical meal prep never set off the alarms. But, in a small or closed in kitchen, it could definitely be hazardous.

I bought one of these awhile back . . .



It's based on a rocket type design and only needs sticks to get good heat. We used it after Hurricane Helene knocked out our power two years ago and it was too warm to fire up the wood cookstove in the house. The downside is that it needs constant feeding.

It's great for boiling a kettle of water, a stove-top coffee percolator, or making a one-pot soup or stew. I pair it with my haybox cooker for cooking all sorts of things.