Lucrecia Anderson wrote:It reflects the values and beliefs of the people in this community and if some don't like it they don't need to live in this community (because they sure as heck aren't from here anyway).
I wouldn't make that assumption. Sometimes, people find themselves at odds with the values of where they are from. Maybe they leave, maybe there are reasons why they do not. In any case, homogeneity of values can be taken too far, to the point of xenophobic tribalism.
Chris Kott wrote:"Adapting morally" to a survival situation is code for letting your morality lapse when necessary to do distasteful things in order to survive.
In that sort of situation, we have already failed for decades, and failed to set up any kind of actual survival infrastructure; all we would have left is a fight over what would prove ultimately to be too few emergency supplies.
So how much does morality mean to each of us? Does it mean enough to stop playing around with survivalist and prepping mentalities so that we can get on with the task of making society resilient?
As I see it, we are moving in the wrong direction. The Internet has allowed people to see the wide diversity of viewpoints in this world, but it has also allowed them to see where the most like-minded people live, and migrate there, creating isolationist ideological "tribes." Correct me if I am wrong, but do not the "zombie apocalypse" type of preppers think of the "zombies" as people unlike themselves, culturally, ideologically, or whatever? When we see a bakery refusing to sell a wedding cake to a same-sex couple, could we count on the owners of that bakery to help the same-sex couple in a disaster, or join with them to struggle for common survival?
Jason Hernandez wrote:When we see a bakery refusing to sell a wedding cake to a same-sex couple, could we count on the owners of that bakery to help the same-sex couple in a disaster, or join with them to struggle for common survival?
Groups tend to come together with other people that have common goals and value. I'm not sure how it could work any other way. People can accept and respect other people without agreeing with their opinions or values. That's what civilised society is. A very religious person is probably going to seek out other people of the same beliefs to band together with. I don't think anything is wrong with that. Communities come together the same way. The Amish community is very strong here. They have the same value system. Amish are kind, friendly people that fit in well with the larger community, but they stick together and to themselves primarily. Again, i dont understand why that is a problem. I also don't think that in a free society, the government should mandate that a privately owned business be forced to do business with anyone they don't want to do business with. Capitalism takes care of these issues without government interference. If i own a business and i decide i dont want to sell my product to women for instance, that should be my business. It's a very poor decision. You just cut your customer base in half, and women will all go to a different business. So will a lot of men that care about them and don't want to deal with a sexist asshole. I'll probably go broke pretty quickly. That should still be my prerogative. People that are interested in forming a community should understand human nature well enough to look for people with the same value system. Laws forcing people to interact with people of different values will be the first laws to fall by the wayside in any sort of disaster scenario.
Jason Hernandez wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, but do not the "zombie apocalypse" type of preppers think of the "zombies" as people unlike themselves, culturally, ideologically, or whatever? When we see a bakery refusing to sell a wedding cake to a same-sex couple, could we count on the owners of that bakery to help the same-sex couple in a disaster, or join with them to struggle for common survival?
Most preppers that have put any thought into it realize the "zombies" will come from within their communities in most cases. If you are in a rural area your own neighbors would be a bigger threat than gangs from the city.
And yes people are tribal, they self segregate constantly during the best of times (increasingly so) and given the option would do the same in a disaster. Plus the definition of "help" varies quite a bit. Does it mean "Can I use your phone to call for a ride" or is it "Can you share your limited food supply with me". The first request is a no-brainer for most people but the second request is an entirely different matter because it requires a sacrifice. That is where tribalism comes into play.
If you have a lot in common with someone there is also often a belief/expectation that they would do the same for you if you needed help and that they recognize and value your sacrifice.
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2020 Permaculture Design Course for Scientists and Engineers, June 14-27