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Marilyn Queiroz
steward
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Xcel Energy is one of the nation's leading suppliers of wind energy to customers. Of course, some parts of Colorado are pretty windy. Colorado’s first commercial wind farm is Ponnequin Wind Farm in northern Colorado.
 
                    
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More than two years ago we have designed the 5 kW wind turbine and automatic wind-diesel system. http://www.windpower.ru/english/index.htm
We use principle of loading the diesel-generator additionally with charging current of battery up to 80-90% of its capacity. Now we have positive experience of our systems’ operation at several sites in Russia.
We need the cooperation with all who interested in this matter worldwide.
 
                                      
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Since moving to S. DE and experiencing the almost constant wind in our area, I have really been considering looking into a personal wind turbine.  Does anyone have any experience with single house windturbines?  I would like to hear from real-life experience.
 
Dave Boehnlein
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Location: Orcas Island, WA
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We've got a small unit here at the Bullocks that seems to pretty well for us in the winter. We have it mounted in the top of a 90 foot Douglas fir in a valley (to take advantage of the venturi effect). One thing to note is that the smallest units tend to be the loudest from what I've heard. As long as you don't mind a droning background noise when the wind is blowing it seems like a good idea.

An alternative may be to get a bigger unit that won't be as loud and share it with neighbors or do grid intertie (especially if you can get a wholesale price for the power you produce above your useage).

Also, remember that solar and wind power make a great combo in many areas where it tends to be windy when the sun isn't shining and sunny when it's still.
 
paul wheaton
master steward
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Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
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How do you know you have a "venturi effect" spot?

Does the noise come from wind on the blades, or is it the motor?  Would insulation help?

 
Matt Ferrall
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Location: Western WA,usda zone 6/7,80inches of rain,250feet elevation
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Just read in the NYTimes a revealing article. http://s.nyt.com/s/Em9ZQ68 .Hear is the intro:Some of the greatest technologies of the age,from electric cars to efficient light bulbs to very large wind turbines are made possible by an unusual group of elements called rare earths...These elements come from some of the most enviromentaly damaging mines in China in an industry dominated by criminal gangs...
Hopfully we can get the word out among permies and nip the scourge of wind power in the bud before more of this destruction continues.Permies against wind power!!
 
gary gregory
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Location: northern california, 50 miles inland from Mendocino, zone 7
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Mt.goat wrote:
Hopfully we can get the word out among permies and nip the scourge of wind power in the bud before more of this destruction continues.Permies against wind power!!


What about electric cars, energy efficient light bulbs, and chinese gangs?
 
gary gregory
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Location: northern california, 50 miles inland from Mendocino, zone 7
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Here's more on rare earths


http://www.resourceinvestor.com/News/2009/11/Pages/Rare-Earth-metals-shortage-expected-by-2015.aspx


Sounds like the use is widespread.
 
Matt Ferrall
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Location: Western WA,usda zone 6/7,80inches of rain,250feet elevation
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Uh-oh is right Gary!I`m definitly against all those other things as well but sorta limited by the thread title.Hows this sound though?"hopefully we can get the word out among permies and nip the scourge of industrial technolgy in the bud before more of the destruction continues,Permies against civilization!!"
 
gary gregory
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Location: northern california, 50 miles inland from Mendocino, zone 7
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Here is a well written article about rare earths and turbines.   I wasn't clear before on what the rare earths were used for, but it appears they are used to make the magnets.   
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/hybrid-cars-minerals

So now what?

I don't think the process to make pv's and solar panels is much cleaner.

Can we live without the "red" in our color tv's?   Can we reverse our need to have everything transported to our doorstep, like electricity or avocados from chile or lead tainted toys from china?   Almost everything I buy causes an extraction industry to be born.   

Studying permaculture and applying it when possible seems to be the right direction to take. 

Here's one more interesting article about rare earths
http://seekingalpha.com/article/177940-rare-earths-jack-lifton-on-safeguarding-future-supply

Six hundred million people in the Western world are enjoying a life increasingly dominated by technology that we don't understand. In particular, we don't understand how it is made. What I see in America is a reluctance to admit that the green road starts in the black earth. We have to mine and refine the minerals and metals into forms which can then be fabricated into forms which can then be made into parts which can then be assembled into the technology devices we use to conserve energy. Everything starts at the mine or at the oil or gas well.

In the West, electronic devices using electricity produced by a huge network of generating devices control our transportation, communication, and our environment. We've got a grid that we talk about as if we understand it, but it's an extremely complicated system. We ignore the fact that we produce and distribute oil and its by-products, metals and their compounds and alloys. Nobody pays attention to that. All we do is say we've got to stop doing this and stop doing that. We have to start educating everyone as to how a metal becomes a radio or how a metal becomes a battery, how a battery propels a car.

 
 
Henry Bjorklid
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Location: Bulgaria
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Don't worry - be happy!  Use scrap!

You can build your own Savonius "Vertical Axis Wind Turbine".

First read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savonius_wind_turbine

and here:
http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/vawt.htm

See for videos here:
http://uk.truveo.com/tag/Savonius and you get the idea

This is an important video:
NEODYMIUM MAGNET LEVITATION Vertical Axis Wind Turbine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfZUmbxzUM4&feature=video_response

Even a nine year old can make one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPq2mNdJtJE [the quality of the video is really bad]

You get very powerful magnets from old hard-discs.
Use half an hour to look at different videos and you will understand most of the tech. It is not so much to understand, but to optimize everything is naturally a challange. 


Henry
 
gary gregory
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Location: northern california, 50 miles inland from Mendocino, zone 7
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HenryFinland wrote:
Don't worry - be happy!  Use scrap!

You can build your own Savonius "Vertical Axis Wind Turbine".

First read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savonius_wind_turbine

and here:
http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/vawt.htm

See for videos here:
http://uk.truveo.com/tag/Savonius and you get the idea

This is an important video:
NEODYMIUM MAGNET LEVITATION Vertical Axis Wind Turbine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfZUmbxzUM4&feature=video_response

Even a nine year old can make one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPq2mNdJtJE [the quality of the video is really bad]

You get very powerful magnets from old hard-discs.
Use half an hour to look at different videos and you will understand most of the tech. It is not so much to understand, but to optimize everything is naturally a challange. 


Henry



Interesting experiments.  Do you know if the magnets have a limited lifetime or do they last forever?
Gary
 
Henry Bjorklid
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gary wrote:
Interesting experiments.   Do you know if the magnets have a limited lifetime or do they last forever?
Gary

I would be very surprised if the would not be *forever*.
And you can make a nail magnetic, but the more pure Fe the metallic thing is, the better magnet it will be.

The magnets in the hard disks are very, very strong.
Google this: "making a magnet"

If you decide to put a hard disc apart, you can make a propeller-cap:
- a battery
- a R/C circuit (resitans and condensator)
- a thermo-diode or tyristor or such that opens and closes when there is enough of warmth
- a potentiometer

You have the tyristor inside the cap. The cap on your head. When it is warmed up, it opens the circuit => the motor winds the propeller => the propeller cools the tyristor => the propeller stops.
The R/C-circuit 'makes a hysterese' meaning that when the tyristor opens or closes, it will not at once turn itself into the opposite direction => It wil not go on/off/on/off/on/off/on/off/, but have a treshold before it goes on or off again.

Now, I think nobody understoood my descrption, I have studied electronics only in Swedish, and I do not even know the correct words in Finnish, even less in English.

Anyhow, when you have been told how to do it in English, make 4 of these caps. Then take three buddies to the bar. Learn a lot of short stories. You are going to need them.
After a pint or two with your buddies, you introduce the hats and tell the rule:
"Everyone puts his hat on. When anyone has the propeller going, he has to tell a short story. If he can't find anything to tell, he buys the next round."

Warning:
Do not drink too much or you will forget all your stories and end up broke.

Btw. I should have made a new entry in my "Introduction"-thread, but as the community that we asked to give/lend us a forest for our "to-be-craftsman/-woman-village", gave a principle "GO! - make a village!",  I have been so happy and have had so much to do...

I'll be back!


Henry
 
Lisa Paulson
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HenryFinland,  that made me laugh, thank you for making learning fun!

Is a hard disk refering to the things computers use to copy information on to that looked like a rectangle encased in hard plastic ? 
 
Joel Hollingsworth
pollinator
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Location: Oakland, CA
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I work with rare earth elements.

One of the biggest uses of them is to make pyrophoric "ferrocerium" alloys, commonly known as lighter flint.

It costs a little more to source them this way, but there are also large deposits and refining infrastructure in Scandinavia, which explains why the elements have names like Ytterbium. Given China's recent trade policy of favoring the export of finished goods over the export of raw materials, Europe may well become the predominant source for the US. I think some of the PR you're seeing is also a response to this change of trade policy by the PRC.

I also expect one aspect of demand to decline sharply: mechanical hard drives are being replaced with flash memory in a lot of applications.
 
ross taylor
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paul wheaton wrote:How do you know you have a "venturi effect" spot?

Does the noise come from wind on the blades, or is it the motor?  Would insulation help?


The Venturi effect is the reduction in fluid pressure that results when a fluid flows through a constricted section of pipe. IF he know it is true need to find out solutions accordingly....
 
Dayna Davis
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Location: North Texas
food preservation hunting solar
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Hello All, I'm new here and have found this to be a great source of information!   Have any of you ever heard of the "New Wind" thingy?

http://inhabitat.com/wind-energy-made-beautiful-with-these-silent-wind-tree-turbines/

I found this interesting due to the amount of issues w/ wind turbines that this particular design solves.  Noise, size, aesthetics, and bird deaths.  The cost is actually comical and uneconomical - in my humble opinion.  I'm curious if any of you extremely clever folks have any ideas on how to apply that particular technology using scrap?
  
 
Devin Lavign
pollinator
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You could use 2 liter bottle vertical turbines like this



Building the "tree" structure could be done with scrap metal.
 
Dayna Davis
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Location: North Texas
food preservation hunting solar
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Devin Lavign wrote:You could use 2 liter bottle vertical turbines like this



Building the "tree" structure could be done with scrap metal.


I'm not sure how to weatherproof the 2 liter bottle.  I think maintaining the 2 liter bottles might out weigh it's purpose.  Water is a whole other issue - how do you keep it out of the tunnel?  I live in north Texas and our spring is brutal.  We actually have a "hail" season.  Durability seems to be the plague here.
 
Live a little! The night is young! And we have umbrellas in our drinks! This umbrella has a tiny ad:
Video of all the permaculture design course and appropriate technology course (about 177 hours)
https://permies.com/wiki/65386/paul-wheaton/digital-market/Video-PDC-ATC-hours-HD
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