questions about the 2015 4-dvd set

So I got a kickstarter PM about the new kickstarter:

Hi Paul,

Congrats on getting the project funded, I look forward to my HD streaming, it looks like you've pulled together some great information and a great filming crew.

I have a few comments that are meant to be constructive. We met at Sepp Holzer's Montana workshop a year ago, I enjoyed your company very much, and am quite sure that you are made of stern stuff and won't mind some straight talk.

1) You're quite the bear of a man, and I sometimes find your style overbearing (loud, roaring, pounding!) I think your chief asset to the permaculture community has been like a gravitational mass pulling people together, or like the hub on a wheel. Good hubs are silent and still as they keep the spokes in harmonious motion, complete the analogy for suns and planets as you like. I guess what I'm saying is, from you personally in these videos, the calmer the better in my opinion. On the other hand, maybe lots of other people love the crazy wild over-the-top Paul on the silver screen.

2) I built my first rocket mass heater in 2003 with Ianto Evans at a workshop in Ohio. Since then I've built others and I've been to other folks' workshops that don't acknowledge "the lineage." Maybe copying is the sincerest form of compliment, but I find it haughty and rude to not recognize the shoulders we stand on. I've by no means listened through all your podcasts, so I don't know where you stand on this, but I hope that these videos (which stand to become the go-to-source for all things rocket stove) will tip the hat to Larry and Ianto's Aprovecho innovation, the cook stove, and Ianto as the innovator who really added "mass heater" to the equation with the barrel, extended horizontal flue, and cob/rock, not to mention inflammable insulation, clean outs, etc. At least, that's how I understand the history. The man's a genius and deserves his due. He's also an incredible communicator and I've never met anyone who could explain fire science better...in fact it seems to me that pretty much every rocket stove fire science educator pulls their notes directly from him. I know I do.

3) Speaking of genii, at that 2003 workshop we were visited by an engineer, old guy, I think from Ohio or nearby. He had some kind of adiabatic induction motor (I'm kinda making that up) where one end stuck into the hottest part of the rocket (so long as it's not steel melting) and the heat drives a magnet piston inside a coil to generate alternating current. The thing was the size of a quart water bottle, entirely enclosed, and he said would last a lifetime. A rocket stove (which he said he had independently invented to couple with his device) could easily generate all a house's low-power (lights, music, electronics) electrical needs from this one device. We saw it working on a slapped-together rocket. He had flogged the prototype up and down, but no-one would bite with the investment money. At the time I was even more vagabond than today, so my notes were very poor and I'm running from memory, but if you could track him down, he was quite the innovator. I occasionally try and find mention of it on the internet but have so far failed. Best folks to ask would be the family (again, my memory fails me) that hosted that 2003 Ohio workshop. Could be another kickstarter waiting to happen...

Again, thanks for everything you do out there to help us help each other save the world. Peace

xxx (xxx@gmail.com)

PS. I never post on permies because I'm kind of private, but maybe one day ...Great site.

I think I've been doing a really good job of keeping up on the PM's. Most of which are already covered in the FAQ.

This guy is a supporter of the current kickstarter, but this is just too much stuff to cover in a PM, so I wrote back:

way too big. You gotta post this much to permies to get answers.

And he responded:

I understand you're busy. So are we all. These aren't questions looking for answers. They're suggestions to help you out. But, like I thought when I met you, you're head's too big for your own good. Later buddy.

I really wanted to forward the first post to cassie so she could give a good response, but you cannot forward a PM. I see the email address provided, so I suppose I could have copied and pasted an email to cassie. But Cassie is putting in crazy long hours too.


Anybody wanna try to help this guy?

Hey Paul - I'll give it a go, probably would be better for someone other than you to respond since he got cranky in his response. would you like to see my e-mail to him prior to sending it? I'll need his gmail address if you're comfortable with my doing it.
M

I think we can get a few responses here, in this thread, and maybe I can send him a link.

One of the things I appreciate the most about Permies.com and PermaCulture in general, is the vast array of ideas and personalities that underscore the basic premise of a creative community with 1 common goal - saving the planet and accomplishing things in concert with the earth rather than at bay with her. Paul is certainly larger than life in his persona and presentation, but what's been accomplished is also bigger than most of us even dreamed was conceivable. I think it's very important that we all are given room to be ourselves, regardless of the grandeur or meekness that we each possess. He has a grand presence, I on the other hand am small in stature and far more reserved but our goals align, which is all that I feel is important. I think that the scale of participants in permies.com, his movement and his following gives a nod that what he is doing is working very well. Bottom line, that's his personality, which as a fellow permie is
fine with me. I know he's adamant about respecting other's presentation & personalities as long as it, in turn is respectful.

As far as Larry and Ianto's Aprovecho being given credit, I know there is a list of Innovators that are praised for their ingenuity and participation in the DVDs. I have to leave those specifics to another more knowledgeable with their work. Thanks for mentioning him; I'll definitely spend some time looking at what they have done and are doing.

The last part of your e-mail about the generative possibilities of the stove is really interesting. I hope you'll take the plunge and throw that up on Permies.com. I would bet there are folks out there playing around with that very thing and would make for an excellent thread!

One nice thing about permies instead of posting to a PM on kickstarter is the ability to quote.

I think your chief asset to the permaculture community has been like a gravitational mass pulling people together, or like the hub on a wheel. Good hubs are silent and still as they keep the spokes in harmonious motion, complete the analogy for suns and planets as you like. I guess what I'm saying is, from you personally in these videos, the calmer the better in my opinion. On the other hand, maybe lots of other people love the crazy wild over-the-top Paul on the silver screen.

I have many thoughts here.

1) maybe the community is bigger because of the way I am. So if I were more the way you like, then it is possible that the community will get smaller.

2) be the change you want to see rather than trying to encourge me to be different.

3) From the great philosopher popeye: I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam.

4) https://permies.com/t/12726/tnk/change

but I hope that these videos (which stand to become the go-to-source for all things rocket stove) will tip the hat to

You mean exactly like what we do in the previous four videos? And in many podcasts? And we even explore the history of rocket mass heaters over the centuries and talk about Ianto's contributions then talk about some people who have mysteriously gathered credit for the work of others. Stuff like that?

if you could track him down, he was quite the innovator.

Couple of thoughts:

1) bring this up in a thread at permies. It is possible that this work has been continued and people know of it. If nothing else, more brains are made aware of it and they might keep an eye out.

2) I think this could be your life mission rather than mine.

But, like I thought when I met you, you're head's too big for your own good.

It is true that my head is freaky big. Both literally and figuratively. I spent a large part of my life trying to learn how to feign humility - but now I just focus on my stuff and move forward, while people throw "arrogant," "obnoxious," "ego," "narcissistic," "rude," "vulgar," "greedy," "fat," "nasty," "mean" ... and probably 30 or 40 more. I get a river of this stuff. So I have a couple of thoughts:

1) I think I could get this river to dry up if I never shared anything. I just kept all of my thoughts to myself. At the same time, I see that anybody that shares anything gets similar stuff. Maybe they share more than I do and their personality results in a smaller river of ick because they are lovely people and I am not. But I am certain that they still get ick.

2) Every time anybody utters any of this stuff, I think that it reflects more about the person with the words on their lips than it does the person being pointed at.

3) I think it is human nature to try to control other humans. And these are the words that are used to meet that end. And, for the most part, they are used because it actually works ..... most of the time. But I think that if it worked 100% of the time, all forward progress would come to a complete standstill.


Therefore, I now choose to wear these words as a badge of honor. They signify that I am traveling my own path and apparently people are trying to control me but failing.


As I move forward on my path, I apparently frustrate thousands of people because I am not following the path that they want me to follow. The bizarre thing is: if my path is the wrong path, how did I build such a massive audience?

Marianne Cicala wrote:Paul is certainly larger than life in his persona and presentation, but what's been accomplished is also bigger than most of us even dreamed was conceivable.

Shiny! Thanks Marianne! Apples for you.

YEAH!! Enough for pie!

1) You're quite the bear of a man, and I sometimes find your style overbearing (loud, roaring, pounding!) I think your chief asset to the permaculture community has been like a gravitational mass pulling people together, or like the hub on a wheel. Good hubs are silent and still as they keep the spokes in harmonious motion, complete the analogy for suns and planets as you like. I guess what I'm saying is, from you personally in these videos, the calmer the better in my opinion. On the other hand, maybe lots of other people love the crazy wild over-the-top Paul on the silver screen.

I find that there are lots of leaders who are very loud and outspoken and powerful. I find that there are lots of leaders who are quiet and calm and powerful. I think there is room for both kinds. Paul is not the quiet or calm kind. We know this. We've known this for a very long time, and I think I speak for a LOOOOOT of people when I say I don't want that to ever change.

I've by no means listened through all your podcasts, so I don't know where you stand on this

I'm going to go ahead and just ask you to just stop right there. Paul has mentioned these kinds of things ALL throughout his podcasts and videos. I hope in the future you will not assume things in this accusatory way without knowing the facts of what you are speaking about.

But, like I thought when I met you, you're head's too big for your own good.

I help Paul out with a lot of things, so I pretty much talk to him every day. Because of this, I see a LOT more of the behind the scenes Paul than other people do. Sometimes I think people just honestly think he skips around his land playing with seeds and rocket mass heaters all day. This really upsets me because everyday I see how busy he is with twelve million things that sometimes aren't fun but really important for the movement of permaculture. So if you think that the fact that paul suggested you post to permies had anything to do with him thinking he is better than you, you are strongly mistaken. It has nothing to do with his big head but more with the fact that he already has SO much on his plate so he figured someone else might be able to help you with your stuff so he could spend his time taking care of other big things. I don't see the problem with that at all.