positive drainage to ditch line?

Hello.

Can someone, please, translate into human language the request from department of transportation to my newly built driveway that exits/joins to a gravel public road with no ditches:

"For right radius as exiting provide positive drainage to ditch line"

Thank you.
2suns

Slava On : In an other post you mentioned trying to plant trees on a slope ! If your land that fronts onto the highway is higher than the road bed,

then take pictures so that you can prove that in another 20 years! If your frontage IS higher you do not have to maintain the ditch the Dept of

Transportation does ! The location of the road has been recorded somewhere and they can only come so far out from the center of the road to

maintain the ditch line, you wont come home and find that they have moved 3 ft onto your property to improve the drainage line


If your land is lower at the property line where it hits the road you are going to have to accept part of the cost of maintenance of a drainage ditch !


Hopefully your house 1) does not have a basement to crawlspace and the foundation is several inches higher than the roadbed surface. 2) this may

all change if Your D.O.T. shows up someday and blacktops the public road raising it several inches 3) take pictures now !


There is a general requirement to see that all of your land is rapidly drained after ''most storms'' ( they may have 100 year flood language in place

somewhere) The resulting drainline needs to be only as deep as to make drainage easy . However if you have to use a culvert to cross that ditch

The culvert itself must be covered with enough compacted soil and/or blacktop to prevent the culverts eventual collapse from the vehicles driving

on it. Then there is always the cement truck that gets lost, finds your road and turns around in your driveway !

So if you use a 12'' culvert and want 14'' of compacted soil on top you may find that on the uphill side of your drive way you are mowing to the curb

and have a 30'' deep Storm box to collect to your culvert ( the extra depth is so the culvert will not fill up with sand ) and then on the down hill side

of your culvert you may have to create and maintain a ditch sloped so as to gently transport the typical runoff to the storm sewer or collection box !

The total depth of that drainage ditch could be 3 ' below the surface of the road !

I can only guess that they are telling you that your driveway must meet or connect with the ''public road at right angles to assure that you have equally

good ( or bad )lines of sight to your left and right when pulling out of your driveway !

If you have a corner lot they are telling you that you can not create a driveway that bisects the 90º corner !


Not having seen your properties road edge I hope the picture I am painting is not as good as what you actually face !


As this was 40% just off of the top of my head, it will be informative to see how this turns out ! Please let us know !

For the Good of the Crafts ! Big AL.

Hello Al.

Thank you for the detailed answer.
My house is 1900' away from the point where the driveway starts. It sits about 100' higher on the slope than this public road.

I attached a photo of the driveway where it connects to the public road. There is no ditch to cross. There is a brook that comes along the side of my driveway and then it becomes a ditch that runs down along the public road. But, there is no ditch along the public road above my driveway...

Slava On : I am confused, is the communication from the local Dept of Transportation new ? Has there been an accident or public safety vehicle in a ditch nearby ?

Are there places where trees on your property block line of sight because of a curve or dip in the road ! You have a preexisting self maintained right of way and a

preexisting access point from your property onto the public road !


Have your neighbors received similar letters from the D.O.T. ?


Document all of the present road frontage both where your land is higher and lower than the surface of the Public roadbed, and be aware of any low spots that hold

onto sheets of water for days or more !

After 5 generations living in the same township -in order to live in the type of house I am moving into- I am dodging my local Code Enforcement Officer by moving

to a different town ! These things happen! Good luck ! Big AL

Hello Al.

DoT permitted me to build this driveway to my house and they still hold a bond. The road is finished, but in order to get the bond back, I have to satisfy the requirements on the inspection letter.
1. They wanted to cap the gravel road with crusher run. I did that.
2. They wanted to clear the line of sight. I removed the bushes that blocked the view.
3. They asked for "positive drainage" but I don't understand what they meant by that... Do they ask me to bury a culvert pipe under my driveway? But, there is no ditch up from my driveway along the public road. The driveway runs across my neighbours' properties and the access easement is 30' wide). My house is 1900 away, deep in the woods and it sits at least 100' above the public road. That is why I asked for clarifications...

Slava On

Slava On : I am not able to look into their minds for you -but if your land drains well, and is generally higher than the roads surface where your

property meets the road I would ask for clarification ! Have there been road washouts where drainage from your land has crossed it to drain

into the creek ?

If you ditch your side of the road it sounds like they will have to add a culvert under the public road to carry the storm runoff your side collects.

THis new problem may be because someone with too much authority saw that the creak was running muddy after a recent rain !

Or possibly a school bus driver was unhappy with the way the road was being maintained ?


Ditching is not your biggest problem it is how small is the smallest pipe you can use for a culvert if there is an uphill low spot that has to drain

past your driveway - This will force you to have a culvert at the end of your drive, And that culvert will have to be buried deep and well covered

to avoid having it get crushed which will make things that much worse !

Everyone has a cell phone with a camera, right now its your best friend take lots of pictures of your property, the road the creek and the location

of any existing culverts !

You may need to learn to use a Surveyors A Frame to learn where your low spots are and just how much ditch you might need to drain every

thing ! Also you could look into a cattle crossing type gate see Link Below :


https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9qoabF3qx1rwn7nq.jpg

This is made of simple piping and crosses a shallow ditch. While this is expensive, it saves you from the amount of extensive ditching if it has

to run level and at the depth of a well buried culvert !

Pictures first, look places where you property edge is lower than the road and water that does not drain away after a rain, sooner or later you

will have to have a meeting with your DOT you want to be as ready as possible !

Slava ON :Here is a link to how to use an A Frame to find a level conture line on your property ! See Link Below :




For the crafts ! Big AL

I looks like your driveway is a little higher than the low side edge of the crown on the road (road shoulder area). There are some wet areas in the photo you posted that kind of indicate it's not just an optical illusion. What I would do to solve this issue is come back away from the road (maybe to about where that fence line is), and grade down from the shoulder and make that area the low spot. You'll be back out of their right of way, and at that point I would put in a bit of a rolling swale that would pitch off to the ditch on the downhill side. Make the transitions gradual and you won't hardly notice the dip as you drive through. I'm sure those muddy spots are what the DOT guys are referring to, you'll be happy you did this in the long run as an area like that transition from the road to the driveway can get pretty chunked up if you leave it like it is. Avoid the culvert if at all possible, they're just a long term headache otherwise.

Hello Dave.

Thank you for your suggestion.
This is a view from the other side of the driveway. The land on the side opposite to the creek is flat and is almost flush with the road..

I think that "almost flush with the road" area is gonna be the biggest problem for you there. You could just have one of the transportation guys come out to look at the area with you and you could present a couple of different options of what you want to do to clear up the issue. Like I said before I would talk to him about what a rolling swale should be like here to clear things up or as a last resort a culvert. Re-grade that area, you won't have as nice of an approach, but you shouldn't have much in the way of maintenance either.

With the road and driveway being almost level you are going to run into pooling issues in that area along with the long term maintenance problems associated with that. I'm pretty sure that's what they're concerned with. The transportation dept. is likely going to insist on positive drainage off of the roadway and their easement/right of way that way if there does end up being a problem it won't be theirs. Most of my experience in this realm has been commercial egress from parking lots onto the roadway, but I really think that is what the road guys are looking at here. What you have is probably pretty close to ideal as far as the transition from roadway to driveway goes in the realm of drivability, but that isn't really what the road department is concerned with.