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NEED ADVICE for Lorena (aka:Patsari, ONIL, Dona Justa, Pop Wuj ) style stove

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I was trying to build this based on pics and vids I had seen because I have had little luck finding anything detailed.
As I built it and saw it "in person" it occurred to me that there must be some ratios that are important to know as far as the flow of fire and heat go.
I would greatly appreciate any tips I could get from the members here.
I'll try to include all I have in the 1st post and keep it updated if asked so ppl don't have to read the entire thread.
As you will see from the images I am restricted on length and width.
I could go higher but from what I have seen there is little point.
What I am not sure about is the correct ratios to make sure I have the "rocket" effect and draw I need.
I will bring up the sides of the firebox to just under the SS cooking surface you will see in the picks

I will fill up the empty space as in the video clip.
I will use the two shaved fire brick as the two humps for the small pot areas.
They two will be just below the pot bottoms.

So here are my questions:
based on the dimensions in the images of my brick frame.
Q: How much space between my square SS cooking surface and the fill under it?
Q: How large should the holes be that move heat from main area to small pot areas?
Q: Any idea what size a SS venturi tube (pic below) should be?
Q: Any idea what the hole size from small pot to chimney pipe?
Q: Chimney pipe diameter?


EXTRA resources that might be useful:
VENTURI CONE similar to image I saw in one foreign video
Would LOVE to know the proper ratios so I could make something like this
to use between mail area and two small pot areas.

Diagram and cross section of another design.

Video clip of critical part of build
[Thumbnail for Lor5.png]
DIAGRAM of similar stove
[Thumbnail for Lor1.jpg]
MY stove w/measurments
[Thumbnail for Lor2a.jpg]
Firebox and SS cooking surface
Posts: 4154
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
hugelkultur fungi books wofati solar woodworking
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Mitch Graves : Lots of Your fellow members here at Permies have seen 1 or more variations on the stoves you are interested in ! You may get lucky

going to the top of this page and using the Permies Search Engine to go through past Forum threads, Any new posting to an old thread sends a

'new contact' notification to any member who posted there in the past ! Often this creates New contacts !

Also when ever you create a new post our computer looks for 'Key Words' - compiles a listing of Simmilar Topics and posts that list at the very bottom

of this page .

Now a short history of the whole category of ''Mud stoves'' - Yes they can be made in 3rd world countries from local materials and are much more efficient

And Effective than the 3- stone fires that 40% of the people of the world still use - often Indoors ! It is claimed that the housewife and any young children

are exposed to pollution at an equivalency to a 40 pack a day cigarette habit !

However- All of these ''Mud stoves'' have one major failing - there is no provision made to train the housewife on maintenance. repair and rebuilding !

After an initial period where the housewife is ecstatic with her new kitchen and long after the N.G.O. has left the area there is a failure and the housewife is

unable to make repairs herself ! The resulting word of mouth is not positive and adoption is not attempted or is temporary - back to 3 rock fires !

Overwhelmingly the past practice of various NGOs when this fact has been rubbed in their faces is to attempt to create a new ''Mud stove'' that will not fail in

the same way ! Hundreds of these designs are out there and there is no one model that is better than another! This could be rectified with better materials or

by allowing the Housewife the chance to build the stove and thus have the skills for repairs !

Remember that we are dealing with different cultures here and tradition limits the permissible number of ways the housewife can inter-react with anyone not

a family member ! Many men would consider this a 'woman's world' issue and nothing for them to even consider attempting !

After at least 50 years of failures by various groups to bridge the gap -N.G.O.s are trying to introduce stoves that contain more and more Metal parts that are

mostly non-obtanable in the local economy !

So - As you have successfully proceeded with your build to the point you have reached - I am sure that any future Maintenance / repairs will present NO

special problems to you !

I can offer an outside source for more information, see link Below :

A couple of final thoughts, The persons who could help you with your immediate problem are mostly non American craftsmen many of whom will have english

as a second language but who are unlikely to post here !

Also note that Aprovecho is Two Organizations (a .org and a .net ) both are good well-meaning N.G.O.s that while failing to solve THIS Problem do do a lot of

good in many locations - with more Commercial enterprises !

I hope you found this Timely and Useful, Good Luck and Good Hunting ! For the Good of the crafts ! Big AL
allen lumley
Posts: 4154
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
hugelkultur fungi books wofati solar woodworking
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- In the above Thread extension I used a slightly pejorative term " Mud Stoves " Deliberately. Often when An N.G.O. takes on this project they attempt to find

someone with 'deep pockets'' to finance this project, it is in part the un-sexy nature of the materials used that limits all funding ! The problem here is not the

Materials used, or any lack of ''Appropriate Technology '' The problem I tried to explain above -is one of putting the " Appropriate Technology into the Correct hands

In some places in Africa All Women teams with limited support from N.G.O.s have built simple Rocket Mass Heaters RMHs to improve cooking performance !

It may seem that I am not in favor of N.G.O.s, this is not true 1 In many cases this is the 1st real job some Liberal Arts Students ever see ! Big AL

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