However, we also have lots of little sassafras trees. I've read that given the opportunity, they can get rather tall. But I've also read that it can be a brittle wood.
So I'm wondering in these big open spots in the woods where the oaks have fallen, would it be a good idea to plant sassafras for a new top story tree. Or is it too brittle? Would it be better to focus on the oaks?
I love sassafrass, but I think oak might be more useful in terms of food, fuel or building material.
I have a lot of Sassafras trees. Not sure what they are good for other than Filé Powder, root beer, ecstasy, and some nice wood (love the wood and leaves on these for some reason). Most of mine are growing in understory or edge, naturally, near sweet gum, oak, maple, tulip poplar, black walnut. They are 3" - 6" in diameter and 20' to 30' tall (guessing). I seem to get a few new ones every year and lose one or two. I love the looks of them, but not sure I would plant them other than the uses mentioned above. Do you know of other uses for them?
walnut work? i hear some varieties leaf out late, making it possible to grow a veggie garden underneath before the leaves come in.
Walnut species are somewhat toxic to many other plants, though. The roots carry the toxin (juglone) as well as the leaves, so growing under the canopy might be limited to plants that can tolerate exposure to it.
Dr_Temp wrote:I have a lot of Sassafras trees. Not sure what they are good for other than Filé Powder, root beer, ecstasy, and some nice wood (love the wood and leaves on these for some reason). Most of mine are growing in understory or edge, naturally, near sweet gum, oak, maple, tulip poplar, black walnut. They are 3" - 6" in diameter and 20' to 30' tall (guessing). I seem to get a few new ones every year and lose one or two. I love the looks of them, but not sure I would plant them other than the uses mentioned above. Do you know of other uses for them?
You're lucky that yours are that size. They seem to grow as a spreading thicket on my land. Haven't seen any specimens that large. Unfortunately, they are a bit of a pest as far as spreading goes -- a nearby thicket in the front yard is quite eager to spread into places that I've planted things I don't want invaded. It's easy enough to pull up the shoots, but they seem to snap off from the roots below, and will grow back.
On the other hand, I agree that it' a pleasant-looking tree. And if grown to lumbering size, I really like the wood. My only experience with working it is from a single large board I bought once. It's a somewhat soft wood; harder than butternut, but much softer than oak. It's similar in color when finished to red oak, but browner. Nice even grain. Open-pored like oak, but a bit less so. Very easy to shape. Very pleasant smell when cut.
FoolYap wrote:Walnut species are somewhat toxic to many other plants, though.
Possibly, but not as bad as many would like you to think. I believe the biggest issue is with black walnut. Lots of plants are toxic to other plants. Guess it is part of the design. Many ways to over come this, including not growing certain plants, growing buffer plants, or finding something that works similarly to the idea presented, just a different tree than walnut. I have included a couple quotes from the book 'tree crops' at the bottom. Also some good stuff on buffer plants in "Gaia's Garden - second edition"
You're lucky that yours are that size. They seem to grow as a spreading thicket on my land. Haven't seen any specimens that large. Unfortunately, they are a bit of a pest as far as spreading goes -- a nearby thicket in the front yard is quite eager to spread into places that I've planted things I don't want invaded. It's easy enough to pull up the shoots, but they seem to snap off from the roots below, and will grow back...
...Very pleasant smell when cut.
Mine seem to be in thickets too, but not sure if it is from the root system or the berries they produce. not that I have ever found the berries, but the internet says they exist. I love these trees fro some reason. Not sure why. They do not seem to be fast growers. Have noticed that they break off easily at the ground, so not good for climbing. They have made a circle thicket at one spot on on the forest edge. Agree with you, the fragrance is very pleasant. Not sure mine are big enough to make cut boards out of, but you could make stick furniture out of them. Still, something about them I just like. Maybe it's the mitten/alien leaves.
The following is taken from (Tree Crops - a permanent agriculture, J. Russell Smith, 1953 edition, page 212).
For decades the United States received a substantial import of nuts from Naples. Most of them were grown on the slopes of Vesuvius and the nearby Sorrento penin- sula, where it is a common practice to cover the vegetable gar- den with walnut trees. These trees stand up tall and spare like the common black locust (RoDinia @ezldoacacin) of the United States. Because they carry their heads high and because they leaf late in the season, the trees permit the Italian sun to T-q?Ch the garden crops beneath, thus making a profit through two sources of income. The same type of gardening prevails in the gardens of Baalbek, in many other parts of Palestine and Syria, and throughout Persia, where one frequently sees the white branches and green foliage of the walnut standing abo\rc the wall that protects almost every garden of that IIungry land.
(and from page 223)
The Persian walnut is especially aliuring to plant breeders because of its great variation within the species-variation as to blight resistance, frost resistance, speed of growth, size, shape, quantity, and flavor of fruit, thickness of shell, and in other ways. One of its chief troubles is early spring growing and con- sequent frost injury. Yet there are strains here and there that remain dormant to an unusually late period in tile spring.
For example, I happened to be walking through some or- chards near Grenoble, France, on June lo, 1913, and inquired what had kilied a tree that stood leafless in the orchard. The owner replied, “lt is not dead. It has not come out in leaf yet.” This incredible fact was evidently true. A perfectly healthy tree it was, just beginning to show the first sign of growth. Across the road, cherries were ripe, farmers were making hay. and the wheat was in head. This late-blooming tree was not of the best, but its nuts, though scanty, were of quality good enough to cause the tree to be kept.
This type of variation is not rare. As I rode from Milan to Paris on May 18, 1926, I saw from the car window, shortly after entering Switzerland, a number of trees that were much less advanced in foliage than their fellows nearby, Trees with similar habits have been found in America.
We have one tree among our hybrids that continues dormant until about the first of June, about four weeks later than the normal, but after it puts forth its leaves it makes three or four times as much growth as the other trees of the same age. (J. W. Killen, Felton, Delaware, February 8, 1916.)
Side note: 'tree crops' scanned pdf version is on the net. 1929 edition and 1953 edition. Nut Growing by Dr. R. T. Morris (Macmillan, 1921) is also available, which as a lot of good grafting diagrams and is mentioned by J. Russell Smith in his 'Tree Crops' book. I also picked up a copy of 'Nut Growing' for the physical library.
Possibly, but not as bad as many would like you to think. I believe the biggest issue is with black walnut.
I'll have to take your word for the former. Thanks for the excerpt.
I love these trees fro some reason. Not sure why. ... Still, something about them I just like. Maybe it's the mitten/alien leaves.
The leaves are definitely interesting. They're also a host species to spicebush swallowtail butterflies, which are a lovely addition to our yard. And the caterpillars for that species are one of the more striking specimens I've ever seen.
I've never seen berries on mine either, though it's possible the birds are simply getting them before I ever see them. I'm fairly certain mine are spreading by root, not berry-drop, because of the roots I find spreading laterally out from the thicket, when I pull up the unwanted shoots.
This is an interesting discussion, but nobody is saying where they are. I live in coastal downeast Maine. I have plenty of oak, but I'm almost completely unfamiliar with sassafras growing here.
That is the best point anyone has made on this topic in my opinion. If the OP doesn't say where he is from, it is difficult to say if you can replace oak with sassafras or not, since this species is completely site specific...It won't just "grow" anywhere, and in the zone it grows in, it might only mature to a small pole-sized tree, or it could mature to a 80' tall 18"+ diameter tree...
<----That is the coolest smiley ever.
When logged in, look at the small buttons in the upper right hand corner on any permies page.
You'll see home help search admin profile logout - click on Profile. Once on your profile page, on the nav bar at the left - click on Forum Profile Information. The first text field box at the top is called Personal Text - this is where you type in your location to be paired with your name.
I hope this helps
FOOD TREES, HARDY, PRODUCTIVE FOR THE NORTH especially
Chestnut and other
I would look at Doyle's thornless blackberries also.
Black walnut is likely a good tree species to plant for wildlife, firewood and in the long term a highly valuable timber species. White oak, Valley oak and white/valley hybrids are resistant to Sudden Oak Death and will maintain many of the species that would die out in the absence of native oaks.
I'm not entirely sure what your motivations are...firewood, canopy cover, biodiversity?
And tomorrow is the circus! We can go to the circus! I love the circus! We can take this tiny ad:
It's like binging on 7 seasons of your favorite netflix permaculture showhttp://permaculture-design-course.com/