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Cedar Apple Rust, Very Resistant

 
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I live in Sussex County, NJ and Cedar Apple Rust is a major problem here.

About two years ago I planted four apple trees without much forethought or information and they are getting hammered by Cedar Apple Rust every year.   I started reading about apple trees and man are they technical.  I wanted to start planting an orchard so I would have early, mid, late and very late bloomers to pump up my pollinators.  it looks like almost all of the Very Resistant Varieties are early/mid.  Also, trying to get Very Resistant CDR trees that are in the same flower group leaves you with a really limited selection of trees.  I have read the Arkansas paper on CDR but it seems to be out of date with all the new varieties coming out.

The Liberty apple seems to be the stand out of the bunch but it's a triploid so it needs two other trees that will also pollinate each other. Most of the apples that are CDR, very resistant are not apple trees I would pick based on taste tests.


Does anyone know of updated lists of CDR Very Resistant Trees or have any experience with planting the varieties that are just Resistant?  

Have you found a group of resistant trees that you are happy with? I'm in Zone 6

Is rootstock affected by cedar apple rust as I would like to just graft a resistant variety to the trees in place?

Regards, Scott



 
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The one grafted apple I have, that was supposed to be highly rust resistant has the worst case of it in our apple area of the orchard.

I have Arkansas Black Apple trees for our main apple crop, I have found that making sure there are enough trace minerals in the soil over the year is the best prevention method.
The trees fare far better than I had hoped, even though they still get some rust struck leaves, the trees retain their fruit and most of the leaves aren't hit.
I expect this to continue to get better every year since I am continuing to add Sea-90 on a yearly basis. It contains 95 minerals and that is the only amendment I have used since these trees were planted.

I am in the middle of a five year study on the effects of high mineral content of the soil for Arkansas Black Apples and when  it is completed, I'll post some of the results here.

Redhawk

 
Scott Foster
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Bryant RedHawk wrote:The one grafted apple I have, that was supposed to be highly rust resistant has the worst case of it in our apple area of the orchard.

I have Arkansas Black Apple trees for our main apple crop, I have found that making sure there are enough trace minerals in the soil over the year is the best prevention method.
The trees fare far better than I had hoped, even though they still get some rust struck leaves, the trees retain their fruit and most of the leaves aren't hit.
I expect this to continue to get better every year since I am continuing to add Sea-90 on a yearly basis. It contains 95 minerals and that is the only amendment I have used since these trees were planted.

I am in the middle of a five year study on the effects of high mineral content of the soil for Arkansas Black Apples and when  it is completed, I'll post some of the results here.

Redhawk



Thanks for the response Redhawk.   I planted Comfrey around the apples hoping that will help, but too early to tell.  I'm really in the first year of my food forest so I haven't spent much time doing any tweaking just infrastructure, planting and throwing chips.  I will check out the sea 90.  Good luck with your study, look forward to the results.  
 
Bryant RedHawk
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I love comfrey as a companion plant, the only problem with it is that if the minerals aren't there to start with, the comfrey can't create the missing minerals.
This is the same problem all "mineral Mining plants" have.

Redhawk
 
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I have a Sundance apple that is in really bad soil, heavy clay and doesn't drain well in the winter, and it still does pretty well against the rust.  It is a patented variety so that will restrict your propagation options.
 
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We have a plague of cedar apple rust here -- it skips from junipers to apples and back every other year. Fungicide is a waste of effort. But my death-warmed-over apple trees don't get it, despite lots of exposure and decades of neglect (one reason I don't take them out and start over). Neighbor's carefully tended trees -- some get it, some don't. Read up on it and apparently resistance is genetic, hence varietal.
 
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Bryant,

this is exciting. I have not even bothered planting apples due to the infestation around here. Even the serviceberries and medlars are showing signs of it. I have been reading the Holistic Orchard and he has a very specific regimen of spraying during the susceptible period, which is meant to cover fungal and some parasitic higher-order issues, but I think the cheap solution is to concentrate on the minerals and limit the cedars, since it must be somewhat dose dependent. I know how you feel about cedars but they are a mass of goo in the spring and I am working on propagating the few that seem to be resistant and removing the others. They are superior bird cover in the winter so I do this with sadness, but the holly is going to be the evergreen bird habitat until I can get some resistant cedars. The good news is I have two cedars that show no evidence of rust and the rest are just sickly, and they grow so fast here I should be able to select progeny in 3-4 years.

I promise when I get some promising stock I will share. Of course this isn't done in sterile conditions and I will be lucky if 10% are resistant, but that beats the current <1%.
 
Rez Zircon
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My tree type junipers are immune, as is my giant spreading juniper (3 feet tall and 30 feet across on a single trunk). But the spreading ground-creeper type is a mass of orange goo every time it rains.
 
Tj Jefferson
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What climate are you located in? This resistant juniper would be highly valued by many of us, but it is a big genus. Mine are eastern red cedar, and I have some crappy shrub junipers that don't seem to be affected, but the ecological niche the junipers fill here is frontier and then understory tree. I would be interested in other species that might be effective.
 
Scott Foster
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Rez Zircon wrote:We have a plague of cedar apple rust here -- it skips from junipers to apples and back every other year. Fungicide is a waste of effort. But my death-warmed-over apple trees don't get it, despite lots of exposure and decades of neglect (one reason I don't take them out and start over). Neighbor's carefully tended trees -- some get it, some don't. Read up on it and apparently, resistance is genetic, hence varietal.



Do you know what kind of apple trees you have?   The death warmed over ones?  Bwa Ha ha.

I have a cedar tree in my yard that is part of the problem, the bigger problem is the distance you need to remove the cedars to break the chain.  

There are so many salt cedars along the roads here, there is no way to take the cedar out of the equation.

There are some resistant apple types which I plan on trying next year.   I planted a crab apple and it's getting it too.   The healthiest looking fruit tree I have in my space is an Apricot...kind of funny as they are supposed to be troublesome.   I'm not positive but I think my pear trees are now being affected by the cedar apple rust.   I didn't think they could get it.
 
Tj Jefferson
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Scott, there are three major rusts in the eastern seaboard and many more characterized. They all share cedar as the overwintering and spring sporulating host. Around here the cedar-hawthorn rust is the big player, and it affects apples, pears, and pretty much anything related. Apricots are prunus, which is not a close relative of the malus/pyrus family. They get black knot around here but that is more treatable (you just have to burn affected limbs). The others are cedar-apple (orange stress-ball looking goop) and cedar-quince rust, which is hard to characterize. We have all three around here, but mostly the apple and hawthorn rusts.

Unfortunately the only way to treat all three is source control of the susceptible cedars, generally the deciduous summer hosts don't harbor the disease (I think in rare cases there can be cankers on quince or something). I have tried foliar spraying as recommended by Holistic Orchard, but the damn deer ate the plants so I don't know if it worked. Maybe I will get some information next year.  
 
Scott Foster
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TJ I know for sure I have the alien/orange goop ball.  It freaked me out.   So what did orchardists do in the revolutionary era.   Is this a bio-diversity issue?  Maybe we should start planting from seed again.  
 
Bryant RedHawk
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The best way to control cedar rust; 1. remove all cedars (junipers) from as close as 2500 feet. 2. inspect all cedars in spring for the tell tale orange mass that is the rust spores, remove those branches and dispose of them either by contained fire (in a barrel with a lid) or bagging and taking them to the dump to be buried.
3. fungicide sprays usually work but you still have to remove the infected branches and dispose of them.

T.J. I have had to take to removing some of our sacred cedars and will have to remove several more to control the rust issues we are having.
For me, this requires I do offerings and prayers for the tree spirit then I must make use of all of the tree which gave its life for my needs.
The trunks make great fence posts, gates, even furniture and flutes. ( I make a lot of cedar flutes)

Redhawk
 
Rez Zircon
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Tj Jefferson wrote:What climate are you located in? This resistant juniper would be highly valued by many of us, but it is a big genus. Mine are eastern red cedar, and I have some crappy shrub junipers that don't seem to be affected, but the ecological niche the junipers fill here is frontier and then understory tree. I would be interested in other species that might be effective.



Montana. I think the trees are Rocky Mountain Juniper.
http://fieldguide.mt.gov/speciesDetail.aspx?elcode=PGCUP050C0
They throw seeds all the time, tho few come up.

The one that's 3 feet tall and 30 feet wide, I haven't seen produce any seeds. Can't find a variety that looks like it. It doesn't appear to have ever been shaped (other than being discouraged from eating the house), but rather just grew how it is (shows no inclination toward getting tall).

The infested one is some sort of creeping juniper, and as readily as it roots, I'm thinking some of these other kinds might root too. The creeper has actually invaded the grass and now gets mowed along with it (tho have found it can be shooed back where it belongs with dicamba).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juniperus_horizontalis

Another one by the front porch is in poor shape, but no rust on it either. It might be a volunteer hybrid of the tree x the creeper, as it can't make up its mind how it wants to grow and looks like a bonsai gone wrong.

From what my neighbors have said the whole area has rust, so little point in taking out individual plants.
 
Tj Jefferson
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Scott Foster wrote:TJ I know for sure I have the alien/orange goop ball.  It freaked me out.   So what did orchardists do in the revolutionary era.   Is this a bio-diversity issue?  Maybe we should start planting from seed again.  



Sorry for the delay. I assume the cedars were so desirable for fencing/construction they were logged! Planting from seed will be very unlikely to produce resistance in apples, it is not a plant nutrition issue (mostly). The odds of having a resistant apple from seed absent a breeding program are unfortunately quite fantastically low.

It seems to me that you have to graft resistant varieties, or just accept high losses from seeded apples (maybe you can get better odds from someone who has an apple tree that exhibits good partial resistance). The goodish news is that the cedar apple rust (which sounds like your rust) does not generally affect pears! So grow those and enjoy!

A good source of  info about the different rusts, they do have distinctive appearances, which are on the same page.  
 
Tj Jefferson
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Rez Zircon wrote:
Montana. I think the trees are Rocky Mountain Juniper.
http://fieldguide.mt.gov/speciesDetail.aspx?elcode=PGCUP050C0
They throw seeds all the time, tho few come up.




I doubt that one would do well out here in the east but I would be tempted to try. If you ever get seeds from it I would absolutely try it! Thanks for the info!
 
Rez Zircon
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Tj Jefferson wrote:

Rez Zircon wrote:
Montana. I think the trees are Rocky Mountain Juniper.



I doubt that one would do well out here in the east but I would be tempted to try. If you ever get seeds from it I would absolutely try it! Thanks for the info!



These throw piles of fruit, tho from what I read they often produce undeveloped seeds, so I'd have to check. Meanwhile...
https://www.kansasforests.org/conservation_trees/products/evergreens/rockymountain.html
https://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_1/juniperus/scopulorum.htm

Looks like ours is cedar-hawthorne rust. It seldom kills the branch, and isn't real shaggy when fruiting.
 
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Forgive me for resurrecting this thread but I wanted to add to it. In my experience, the Trust apple has performed very well against CAR. Not only is it resistant, but it grew many times more than any other apple tree of it's size/age over the last 2 years. It fits its name very well. You can trust it!  ;) I will definitely be planting more of these because I also have a CAR issue in my area (Eastern Ontario, Canada, Zone 5b). I have not found the source of the infection yet but I have so many cedars on my property and nearby that it would be practically impossible to find it anyway.

Also, of my two "rando" apple trees that I adopted, so far one has been resistant and one has been mildly affected. They are not producing fruits yet so I don't know if the disease would affect the fruit or not but I would imagine it would.

The good news is, all of my other trees (hazel, apple, pear, cherry, plum, wild berries) don't seem to be affected by the CAR. I don't have any junipers either so I don't have to worry about considering those in the mix. On that note, in case anyone didn't know, juniper trees can carry and pass along CAR like cedars do, so take that into consideration if you have any. But on a side note, apple trees do not apparently infect each other, so there's that to work with. And you can always use a healthy root stock to graft other, more resistant trees like others have mentioned.

Every orchardist I've ever talked to says it's just part of the game and you have to adapt, like anything else. So good luck in all your disease management strategies, guys! Share your findings! :)
 
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I moved to a new area and did not know Cedar Apple Rust even existed.  Two years ago I planted multiple varieties of apple trees.  I paid no attention to CAR resistance when picking my varieties because I did not know about CAR.  My yard is surrounded by cedars so I cannot avoid CAR by removing the neighboring cedars.

The first year all the apple trees were hit by Cedar Apple Rust to varying extents, most completely infected.  Even the resistant varieties (chosen by dumb luck) were affected.  

This year I followed Bryant RedHawk's formula for a horsetail brew that you use as an anti-fungal spray on fruit trees.  It worked astonishingly well.  Even the varieties that are wholly susceptible to CAR were saved.  

At the beginning of the season, I was late in applying the spray, and some infection had already started.  There were orange spots on almost all the trees, again with some more affected than others depending on their natural resistance.

The horsetail spray stopped the CAR dead in its tracks.  All new growth was clear for a few weeks and the trees were thriving.  CAR started up again a bit later, and a second spraying with the horsetail brew finished it off.  I did not have another problem this year.

I will continue to use this formula going forward every year, and hopefully I will continue to have the same miraculous results.  Last year I was planning to remove the highly susceptible apple trees and replace them with resistant varieties.  Now I'm going to wait and see.  The apple trees should start producing fruit in the next year or two.  I'm very curious to see if the horsetail spray will allow for harvest even from the most susceptible cultivars.
 
Rez Zircon
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lisa Bud wrote:This year I followed Bryant RedHawk's formula for a horsetail brew that you use as an anti-fungal spray on fruit trees.  It worked astonishingly well.  Even the varieties that are wholly susceptible to CAR were saved.  


I had not heard of this -- do tell? Horsetails grow around here so should be able to find some... the CAR doesn't seem to bother my scraggly apple trees, but the creeping juniper is loaded with it, and it's all over the neighborhood. I want to plant some better apples so would be good to be prepared!

In other odds... I have two American elms come back from stumps. (Wasn't clear they weren't Siberians til they got past the young sucker stage.) The smaller one appears to be infected with something that makes a few clumps of leaves dry and crunchy, but doesn't really seem to bother the tree much. The bigger one is perfectly healthy, so far. Anyway given Dutch elm disease is basically fungal, I wonder if that horsetail brew would inhibit it too. (DED wiped out American elms in eastern Montana, other than a very few specimens -- a nursery here has a huge one they nursed through it.)

And my inner chemist wants to know how it works!

 
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Hi Rez,

Sorry to be away so long and not reply before now.

I found the recipe in Dr. Bryant RedHawk's  post on making biodynamic concoctions:

https://permies.com/t/75940/Redhawk-methods-making-biodynamic-preparations

I've only made the anti-fungal horse tail mix so far, but will eventually prioritize making all the other recipes.  Again the horse tail preparation worked remarkably well and completely cured/prevented the Cedar Apple Rust this year.  I will update in future years to confirm if it keeps working well on my land and trees.  I used horse tail I bought from a man on eBay as I did not have any locally (that I know of).  I followed the recipe exactly.  Good luck and I hope this helps!

If Dr. RedHawk happens to see this post, THANK YOU!  I cannot express how grateful we are for your sharing your knowledge and wisdom.


Copied and Pasted from Dr. RedHawk's making biodynamic preparations post:

So now we have gone through the main preparations but there is one more, preparation that can be made and used for disease control and it works pretty well for me.

Casurina tea (horse tail tea):
This is made with Casuarina equisetifolia or Australian pine tree  and once again we have some schools that use the horse tail herb Equisetum instead.
When you start looking at the chemical make up of these two entirely different ingredients, they have similar makeup.
Both are silica rich, both have many of the same vitamins and minerals in the parts we want to use.
They are and can be used together or separately to make this preparation and you will get equal results with either.

You need 1 kg of either Casurina "leaves" or Equisetum leaves.
10 L of spring water or tap water that has had all the chlorine removed.
A large cooking vessel and a heat source.
This preparation is very much like the Valerian prep. you make a tea bag put in the pot, add the water and bring it to a boil.
For this preparation you want to boil the tea bag for at least 10 minutes before turning off the heat to let it cool to room temperature.
The liquid is diluted 10 to 1 (water to tea) and sprayed on the soil, plants, tree trunks and once again this is going to help control fungal diseases.
This one works on all the fruit trees. (if you have cedar rust this one will take care of the problem, especially if used while the disease is in the earlier stages).
 
Rez Zircon
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Thank you! for some reason I couldn't make it come up, or looked for the wrong keywords, who knows. Sure sounds easy. I'll try this next spring, when my creeping juniper gets the creeping crud, and see what happens. And on the American elm if it looks like it's got something going on again.

And I see I've got horsetails over in the small ditch, so hey, now I'm prepared! :D

Thanks again!!

 
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