Win a copy of Permaculture Playing Cards this week in the Permaculture forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • James Freyr
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Anne Miller
  • r ranson
  • Mike Jay Haasl
  • Dave Burton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Joseph Lofthouse
garden masters:
  • Steve Thorn
gardeners:
  • Dan Boone
  • Carla Burke
  • Kate Downham

Frustrated apple tree owner

 
Posts: 2
1
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Last 3-4 yrs  around this time my apple trees start getting spots on the leaves and then they start falling in a couple weeks. I don't get many apples and the few I get have spots and are not healthy. I think i narrowed it down to cedar rust because of the galls that turn orange from the neighboring cedar trees. I tried a fungicide with mancozeb and bonide copper fungicide the last 2 yrs to know avail. I will post some leaf pics from this year. Any help would be appreciated..thanks tom
IMG_20190508_193111.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190508_193111.jpg]
IMG_20190508_193104.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190508_193104.jpg]
IMG_20190505_151942.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190505_151942.jpg]
 
Posts: 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That's unfortunate what happened to your tree :( I know this kinda off topic, I ran into something called Tree T-Pee yesterday. I found it to be pretty interesting and it could be very helpful to anyone who grows trees.
 
master steward
Posts: 2694
Location: USDA Zone 8a
710
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Welcome to permies!

That is what the leaves on our pear tree looked like.  We have lots of Juniter cedar trees though I have never found the damage cedar trees.

Here are some threads that might help:

https://permies.com/t/110223/Cedar-Apple-Rust-fungus

https://permies.com/t/69369/Cedar-Apple-Rust-Resistant

https://permies.com/t/69533/apple-trees

I wish I could tell you the answer to this.  My hubby cut the tree down.
 
pollinator
Posts: 758
Location: 6a
209
hugelkultur dog forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That is 100% CAR.

I started my apple trees about 5 years ago and it's been an uphill battle.  We have salt cedar here in zone 6a.   I had dreams of planting the old heirlooms and moving forward to make the best hard and soft cider this side of the Rockies.  Yeah, after much frustration I started planting a lot of pear trees.  

Pear trees, to my knowledge, are not affected by CAR.  

There are apple varieties that are resistant to the disease.  Namely, the Liberty apple.   I planted three of these last year.  So far, no disease on the liberties. This is an apple that's coming from upstate New York and it is part of the breeding program with the Kazakhstan apples.  The Kazakstan apple forest is pretty much the

the only place left on the planet with genetically diverse apples.

I'm still dealing with this but I haven't given up on apples yet.

My solution, I'm planting the Liberty which is highly CAR resistant and the most resistant pollinators I can find.  The Liberty is a triploid apple.  (If you are planting triploid varieties, it is best to make sure you have the necessary pollinator trees nearby. You will need either one self-fertile apple variety (or crab-apple) or two other varieties which can cross-pollinate each other as well as the triploid variety.)    I ordered Kazakhstan apple seeds from the USDA and I'm starting my own breeding program.  I have Kazakstan seedlings out in a nursery bed and I'm sprouting more seeds.

I know how discouraging it is to have your apples get decimated by this disease.    I say mourn a bit and then try the liberty.  

I think that apple trees have way too many problems due to a lack of genetic diversity.  Yes, the apples from seeds will not be the same as the parent but apple trees reproduce sexually.  That is how nature intends it so I'm going to try it.  


 
Posts: 9
Location: Western Washington - 48.2°N, Zone 8a
1
goat rabbit chicken cooking food preservation bee medical herbs sheep
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Most 'spitters' (apples from seed) still make great hard cider.
 
gardener
Posts: 6350
Location: Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
1086
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
First thing to do is locate the CAR infected juniper tree and prune out and properly dispose of those branches.
Second thing to do is prune out all the infected parts of the apple trees and properly dispose of those parts. (proper disposal is bag and seal, bag and seal the first bag, take to land fill or find a working incinerator to burn them in. they need around 1200 degrees f to be destroyed)
Then make a good aerated compost tea and spray the apple trees with it, repeat this step once a month for 12 months of growing season.
Also spray the compost tea on any juniper tree you find to prevent a recurrence.

Redhawk
 
Scott Foster
pollinator
Posts: 758
Location: 6a
209
hugelkultur dog forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bryant RedHawk wrote:First thing to do is locate the CAR infected juniper tree and prune out and properly dispose of those branches.
Second thing to do is prune out all the infected parts of the apple trees and properly dispose of those parts. (proper disposal is bag and seal, bag and seal the first bag, take to land fill or find a working incinerator to burn them in. they need around 1200 degrees f to be destroyed)
Then make a good aerated compost tea and spray the apple trees with it, repeat this step once a month for 12 months of growing season.
Also spray the compost tea on any juniper tree you find to prevent a recurrence.

Redhawk



The last I checked you have to clear the trees in a 2 sq mile radius.
 
Scott Foster
pollinator
Posts: 758
Location: 6a
209
hugelkultur dog forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

David Lucey wrote:Most 'spitters' (apples from seed) still make great hard cider.



Yes sir, especially if you like a dryer French-style.  I'm actually amazed at the Kazak seeds I got from the USDA.  I purchased 75 seeds and I was super worried about them because it took so long to figure out where and how to get them.  

I started a pack of 25 and every single seed sprouted.   These things are like seeds on steroids.  Just yesterday I took a batch out of the fridge that started sprouting.  One of the seeds has already pushed through the soil and dropped the seed husk.  

I'm seriously impressed...now if some of them can handle the CAR we're in business.
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 6350
Location: Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
1086
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That mostly depends on how the wind blows in the area. On my land it seems to blow south to north 95% of the time.
I have apple trees and Junipers on my land and the aromatic cedar (juniper), I no longer have issues with CAR since I sprayed all the junipers on my land and took care of all the infected branches on both the junipers and the apples.
I also sprayed the soil around the trees.

While I did cut down some of the very nearby "cedar" trees, they are a sacred tree to my people so I have taken the steps to be able to leave as many alive as possible.

If you can't spray the junipers, just spraying the pruned apple trees will go a long way at stopping re-infection.

compost teas will also help tremendously with fire blight and other fruit tree diseases.


 
David Lucey
Posts: 9
Location: Western Washington - 48.2°N, Zone 8a
1
goat rabbit chicken cooking food preservation bee medical herbs sheep
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Scott Foster wrote:

... I'm actually amazed at the Kazak seeds I got from the USDA.  I purchased 75 seeds and I was super worried about them because it took so long to figure out where and how to get them.  

I started a pack of 25 and every single seed sprouted.   These things are like seeds on steroids.  Just yesterday I took a batch out of the fridge that started sprouting.  One of the seeds has already pushed through the soil and dropped the seed husk.  

I'm seriously impressed...now if some of them can handle the CAR we're in business.



How did you get a hold of them, I'd love to give them a try.
 
Scott Foster
pollinator
Posts: 758
Location: 6a
209
hugelkultur dog forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
.

How did you get a hold of them, I'd love to give them a try.

David here is a permies link with the address and contact information.  When you fill out the form tell them you are doing personal research of some kind.  There is a form you have to fill out.

Kazy apple seeds


Here is a link to the USDA website you can look over, you might get a better point of reference starting here.    USDA Germoplasm

Sorry for all of the edits:  Kazy apples start on page 63.  I'll be honest I just picked 3 and ordered them.:)  
 
Scott Foster
pollinator
Posts: 758
Location: 6a
209
hugelkultur dog forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here are a couple of shots of the seeds I pulled from the fridge and planted Last Friday.  I'm telling you these things grow like aliens.

IMG_8505.JPG
[Thumbnail for IMG_8505.JPG]
Malus
IMG_8504.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_8504.jpg]
Malus 2
 
Scott Foster
pollinator
Posts: 758
Location: 6a
209
hugelkultur dog forest garden trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here is a shot of some Kazies in a nursery bed and a rough start to a Pear and mulberry bed.
IMG_8494.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_8494.jpg]
Kazies moved to a nursery bed
IMG_8495.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_8495.jpg]
Rough bed for about 100 pear seeds I started in the fall-this is a mish mash of mulberries, perennial flowers and pear trees from an 80+ year old tree in the forest
 
thomas miller
Posts: 2
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
thank you for all your suggestions for my cedar rust problem. I did prune out cedar galls on the trees that I could. there are more cedar trees that neighbors have that are too big to prune or get to. Has anyone had any luck with a specific spray I can try for next yr? thanks tom
 
What kind of corn soldier are you? And don't say "kernel" - that's only for this tiny ad:
Rocket Oven – is it Right for You? Here’s What You Need to Know
https://permies.com/t/99726/rocket-ovens/Introduction-rocket-ovens-build
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!