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podcast 394 - Permaculture Smackdown on Appropriate Technology  RSS feed

 
steward
Posts: 3504
Location: Kingston, Canada (USDA zone 5a)
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Summary

Credit: Craig Dobbson
In this podcast Josiah and Paul have a good talk about the appropriate technology course that is going to be taught at Wheaton Labs this year. Paul and Josiah discuss what they think are the types of technologies that are applicable to the realm of permaculture. They talk about how these technologies are used to help reduce the amount of toxic stuff in our environment. Much of the talk is about energy tech, such  as rocket mass heaters, food dehydrators and electric tractors.

They talk for a while about the structure and layout of the ATC (Appropriate Technology Course), as well as a new event for the year, called the Brown and Purple Schmoozaroo at Allerton Abbey. This will be a community building event for folks who want to mingle and dabble in the Wheaton Lab events, but don't want to get overwhelmed with laborious ATC activities all day long. It's a little more laid back approach to making permaculture community. It's free to anyone who has already been to the lab before and you can stay for a few days or all five weeks. This event coincides with the Peasant PDC.

The biggest project that will be handled during the ATC, will be a complete overhaul of the electric tractor. So many modifications need to be made, but once it's complete, the tractor will be one of the biggest assets at wheaton labs. Come on out to the ATC, PDC, Peasant PDC or the Schmoozaroo. All the links are located below.

Relevant Threads

2018 PDC, ATC info page
2018 brown and purple schmoozaroo at allerton abbey
The 2018 Peasant PDC at Wheaton Labs
All of the best stuff at Wheaton Labs

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This podcast was made possible thanks to:

Lisa Goodspeed
Keith Kuhnsman
thomas adams
Jocelyn Campbell
Julia Mason
Bill Erickson
Dominic Crolius
Josh Phillips
wade L
Suleiman ALAQEL
Ash Jackson is The Scrollbard
Jason Hower
Bill Crim
Full Name
Miroslav Ultrama
James Tutor
David Ingraham
Scott Reid
Wayne Fajkus
 
gardener
Posts: 427
Location: Olympia, WA - Zone 8a/b
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I wish I could come do the ATC this year! With family and work obligations I just don't have time but hopefully I will be able to make it sometime in the future. I have been interested in the ATC that you offer for the last few years - always looks really interesting. Now that I have my own homestead I think I would learn a lot from it.

Just wanted to make a quick note about water laws that you two were talking about in the podcast. The US has an interesting system where the western states have one type of water law and the eastern states have a different type. What Josiah was talking about where he just needed to return the same quantity of water back to the stream as he took out is known as the Riparian Doctrine. This is based on old English Common Law and permits anyone with frontage on the water body to make use of it.

However, in the western United States we have what is known as Prior Appropriation. This system allows for the "beneficial use" of water in a "first in time, first in right" setup. Essentially, if you can put the water to use for economic benefit then you can acquire a water right. Water does not need to be returned to the system so it can be used up. Based on "first in time, first in right" those with the oldest water right claims get to use the water first regardless of how it impacts those with newer water rights. The reason for this system in the west is essentially because of the gold rush in California. The first miners needed to move water from rivers/creeks to their mines. This was viewed as beneficial but the water was not returned back to the original system. This eventually resulted in the complex irrigation canal systems we have today and the dams that feed it with Colorado being the first state to fully develop this system.

With this system in the western United States it does not mater if you have frontage on a stream or not. The rights to the water is based on the beneficial use and how senior your right is compared to other rights holders not on physical proximity to the stream. The result is that someone else likely has senior water rights to the water flowing through your property. You may in fact not have any legal rights to the water flowing through your property unless the water rights were part of the package when you bought the place. The organization I work for has occasionally purchased water rights and retired them in order to protect in stream flows for fish and other wildlife. Bit complex but it works here in the west.

One reason I went with the property I have now is that the stream that flows through it is not recorded on any county, state, or federal map. Due to this I have unlimited use of the stream and I plan to do what I can to improve it. No issues with water rights or regulations for this stream. I work with state permit managers a fair bit for my work and I checked with them about this - from what they could look up my stream does not exist and is therefor not covered by any existing laws. I'm impacted a bit by a wetland buffer but the stream is not currently regulated.

Hope some of you find this interesting. I had to take a water law course for my water resources degree and since then I have always found water law in the United States interesting - especially the difference between the eastern United States and the western United States.

Here is a little bit more info: Water Law in the United States and I highly recommend this book if you want a detailed but understandable book on water law in the United States: Water Law in a Nutshell

 
pollinator
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Location: Morongo Valley
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Wow, Daron, thank you for that explanation.  Very helpful.

Daron Williams wrote:One reason I went with the property I have now is that the stream that flows through it is not recorded on any county, state, or federal map. Due to this I have unlimited use of the stream and I plan to do what I can to improve it. No issues with water rights or regulations for this stream.



Do you know how many States that applies to?  Back in Oregon, I believe the only surface water one could use without a water right was water that starts and terminates on one's own property. Like a small spring that doesn't connect with a waterway that leaves your property.  Is something different in Washington?  That's very interesting stuff, for sure!
 
Daron Williams
gardener
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Location: Olympia, WA - Zone 8a/b
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WA and Oregon have similar water laws. Both allocate water rights based on seniority and in most cases unless you bought a water right with your property you won't have a water right for a stream that flows through it.

In my case the stream legally does not exist so it is not covered. This is mainly due to its seasonal nature. Though I have dug up old county maps from 1900ish that do show it. So I think it used to be a year round stream. I'm hoping to bring it back to that - at least in a series of ponds that I want to build.

A large pond on a school just upstream of my place feeds it and I'm hoping to work with the school to improve their area too in order to improve the stream. Then there is a horse training school further upstream that I also hope to work with one day...
 
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