• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • paul wheaton
  • Devaka Cooray
stewards:
  • Burra Maluca
  • Miles Flansburg
  • Julia Winter
garden masters:
  • Dave Burton
  • Anne Miller
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mark Tudor
  • Pearl Sutton

Buck Sentimental  RSS feed

 
pollinator
Posts: 2453
390
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We have all heard of buck fever, but what about buck sentimental?

Since retiring 2 years ago, I have become friends with the deer on our property. The landowners all around us are avid hunters, and while I allowed a few hunters here, overall it was a place of refuge. Since I logged, I often ate lunch with my deer friends and kind of got to know them, so much that they do not run off, tractor, chainsaw or skidder be darned.

Now that I clear cut 40 acres in this area, the safe area for these deer have bee drastically reduced. One of the guys (of 3) that I would allow to hunt started talking about setting up a tall blind, using high powered rifles that would hit deer 500 yards away, and making food plots. I have more confidence in Ole Buck (a 14 pointer) out-smarting the hunters than I do in them getting him...in normal conditions, and while Katie and I have nothing against hunting, to me that kind of hunting is not hunting at all, but baiting and cheating. Maybe hunting like they did in the old days with 30-30 in hand and a tromp through the woods, but assassin style kills...I am not into that. There is powerlines they can do that along.

In some ways it would be nice to see some of these trophy deer be mounted to a wall in tribute to their great size, but at the same time, they have sired some beautiful off-spring too. I must be getting older because I think I like the idea of letting them live out their days in peace more.
 
garden master
Posts: 2039
Location: USDA Zone 8a
402
bee dog food preservation greening the desert hunting cooking purity trees
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Travis, thanks for sharing.

Our hunters only shoot cull deer. Ones that have horns that didn't form correctly or ones that have had injuries that make life miserable for them.

The last couple of years, we had a doe and her fawn make friends with my husband.  He named her Stupid and the fawn, he named Short Timer.

Stupid would come everyday with the fawn.  At some point the fawn developed horns. They still came everyday until he was bigger than Mom.

Usually the moms make the fawns go away when they are  getting ready to have babies.  Stupid did not have another baby.

Our hunters knew not to shoot Stupid and Short Timer.  I know they both made it through Hunting Season.

For a while. Stupid started bringing her doe friends.  Each night, they would be in the same spot, about 4 does.

Occasionally, I think I see Short Timer at the water tank.

My husband says he has not seen Stupid in a while.

 
pollinator
Posts: 1710
146
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

The deer on my property are not really any different than my sheep, cows, chickens, or turkeys. They are my food source. I want them to live a normal happy life outside of the meat factories.

A tall blind in a baited area provides a solid shot at a predetermined distance. This provides less chance of an injured deer getting away and the longterm suffering this causes.

I understand trophy hunting vs providing meat are 2 different things. Just adding a different perspective.
 
pollinator
Posts: 10257
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
337
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Our hunter hunts for meat, not trophies, and we want the easiest, safest, most humane kill.  So he has an elevated blind, and we put food out close to it.  He uses a shotgun with slugs, which can not travel far, and shoots toward a hill to further prevent stray bullets.  Our land is small and close to other houses and grazing cattle, so we don't allow rifles.  I don't consider providing food to be "cheating" but rather providing a delicious meal for the deer, possibly the last meal, if the hunter is fortunate.
 
Anne Miller
garden master
Posts: 2039
Location: USDA Zone 8a
402
bee dog food preservation greening the desert hunting cooking purity trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We provide water and food, corn and protein, as part of our wildlife management.  

A good portion of each day, 365 days a year is spent making sure that the deer and other wildlife have food and water.

We do not hunt so our hunters provide us enough meat for a year.  Our hunters are not trophy hunters.

They use culling to remove undesirable traits from the population, like the deformed antlers. This can have long-term effects on the genetic population. A buck with deformed antlers will breed offspring with deformed antlers.

I am also sensitive to a poor deer hobbling around with a broken leg.  I see them get caught in fences and we are helpless to help them.  We can't cut the fence loose because then the ranchers cattle will get out.
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 10257
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
337
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Anne Miller wrote:  I see them get caught in fences and we are helpless to help them.  We can't cut the fence loose because then the ranchers cattle will get out.



Sometimes they can be freed by cutting one wire, or two at the most.  Fixing it back with baling wire will help prevent escaping cattle.  At least that has been our experience with neighbors' fencing.

 
Travis Johnson
pollinator
Posts: 2453
390
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
To me, putting a tall permanent blind up, and then using a high powered rifle is not real hunting in my opinion. Without question, a hunter who can hit a deer some 400-500 yards out has incredible skill, a great weapon, and knowledge of wind drift, bullet trajectory, and animal positioning, but that is about it. All such an situation does is allow the person to increase the odds of seeing more game because they can see a broader area. In a stand with a 30-30 or shotgun, that is entirely different.

There is less control here than baiting of course, but instead of reading the land, taking into account their scent drift, and positioning themselves with research, they are banking on their ability to make a farther shot.


Now having food plots...that is another area of contention for me. A pasture or field is in place for agriculture, it variety of grass types of different types of row crops intended to make a living, or make-a-living for someone else in agriculture. It is just an incidental thing that wildlife thrive on it, but that is not its main purpose. In contrast, while a food wildlife plot does indeed feed wildlife, its sole purpose is to feed a particular type of game, in a certain location. Most of the time this site is smaller in area too, choking down where the game animal will be which only increases the odds of being shot. So really the difference between the two is control!

If I hunt my fields, I have to take into account what the deer are grazing on, such as if they will be heading to the corn fields, the fields with clover, alfalfa, or rye, where they will be traveling to get from bedding area to field , then position myself to intercept them. To me that is real hunting because it involves thought, skill, and knowledge of the land being hunted. To put a stand or blind over a very small area, teeming with fodder specifically chosen to attract the game of choice, is no different than baiting. In that situation, a person is not hunting at all with thought, skill, and knowledge of the land, they have manipulated the situation so every possible option they can control, is controlled.

To me, both are situations that just increase their odds greatly of success through unfair advantage. But there is a broader issue here; when the dross is skimmed off the crucible, it comes down to one thing; the hunter of these types is not about the sport of hunting, it is all about them getting a deer.


On there land, as long as they are operating within the confines of the law, that is their business, but on my land, I think I will ban hunting this year.


 
wayne fajkus
pollinator
Posts: 1710
146
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think the difference is feeding ourselves vs hunting.  Two different things. I harvest 2 lambs per year and 2 deer per year. The deer takes less work and $$ on a daily/weekly/yearly basis than the lamb. Enough so that i sometimes question why i have the sheep. But when you commit to not buying meat at the grocery store, variety  ultimately comes into play.

All i can give is a good life to whatever animal feeds us, up to the point they are taken. Whether it be chickens, turkeys, cows, sheep , wild deer, or wild fish. Fairness isnt in the equation. Respect is. A good life and take them out as efficiently and quickly as possible is really all we can do.

 
wayne fajkus
pollinator
Posts: 1710
146
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'll add 1 more tidbit and it probably plays into your thoughts, which is obsessing about trophies. Ive seen a whole headless buck dropped into a dumpster. That type of hunting, without the respect for anything but the antlers, is terrible. If your response is skewed to that type of hunter i understand your position.
 
Travis Johnson
pollinator
Posts: 2453
390
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

wayne fajkus wrote:I'll add 1 more tidbit and it probably plays into your thoughts, which is obsessing about trophies. Ive seen a whole headless buck dropped into a dumpster. That type of hunting, without the respect for anything but the antlers, is terrible. If your response is skewed to that type of hunter i understand your position.



Yes, very much so. I did not have too much interest in having people hunt here until they found out that a 14 point trophy was walking around. That was when elaborate plans were made on how to ensure they got the deer. It was not specific to Ole Buck, but I think they were secretly hoping for him.

My neighbors all hunt really hard (and not always legally), so the deer tend to gravitate here. For the last few years I have also been logging, so my presence kept people out (just because people do not have permission to hunt, does not mean they do not hunt on you), but the deer, they learned to live with me. I mean it got to the point where I could talk to them and they would not run off, sometimes 30-50 feet away. They might stomp their feet, but as long as I talked to them in a calm voice, they were fine. Surprisingly it was when I shut my skidder off, that they would bound off. In the winter, they would be nibbling at the trees I just felled the twitch before, which time wise, might be an hour later.

But one think I learned about 40 years ago, deer do not live in our back yard, we live in their front yard.

The one thing I do like about being a sheep farmer is, my fences have saved more deer from coyotes. A deer can out run a coyote flat out on snowless ground, but they can also jump. When they reach my sheep fences, they scale right over them, where as the coyotes cannot. By the time they run around to a spot in the fence they can get through, the deer are long gone.
 
wayne fajkus
pollinator
Posts: 1710
146
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have a similar situation. I can get close to them while cutting across a field in the tractor so long as  i dont make direct eye contact. Then there are real close encounters, like 2 twin babies last year. I walked up on them and we spooked each other. But i said "hey girls" and they stopped. I saw them prob 6 times that year. It was always a pleasant meeting. Ill dig up the pic. I posted it last year.

The whole wildlife thing exploded after i built a pond. Everything is here and no telling what will be my next encounter.  It makes walks enjoyable. Ive got close to cottontails, armadillos, deer, etc.

Oh, "hey girls!" Is how i call the cows in every evening. I cant imagine what my neighbors think.
 
Don't count your weasels before they've popped. And now for a mulberry bush related tiny ad:
How to Make Your Own Emergency Home Battery Bank
https://permies.com/wiki/38548/Emergency-Home-Battery-Bank
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!